Severe Expansion Penalty

    Exactly what Cycle said in his above 2 posts....


    I broke through the front of a human player (some fly-by 12yrs old, who ofc never came back after opening his first game and went inactive on day 2 or 3).

    Still I have to destroy his production capacity (located also at the back...so I have to get to all his provinces) to avoid an endless war on many fronts.

    Expansion penalty is still severe (and this is a fairly new game, so if this is the update...).

    I can't construct Propaganda Offices everywhere, because I lack the resources and there is no trade in the market for what I need, so I canhardly influence moral and conquered provinces don't give much extra.

    I have only 1 Supplies province and there are no offers for Supplies whatsoever.

    Thus my supplies production has to go into increasing production of supplies; now constructing level 4.

    But this goes at the expense of everything else: no armored troops, limited other constructions.


    Conclusion:

    I will have to slowly roll op Northern Belgium Group, defend the border and ... farm resources. Just waiting for my crop to ripen and harvest, so I can construct something; which I often can't bc I need to produce troops too.

    Then I will have to somehow muster the army to break Southern Belgium and get some more points from that one (also inactive human).

    The rest of the team (except 1) is doing nothing or went inactive (>50% of my team; 80% of enemy team))


    I thought, however, that this was a strategy game?

    Me and 1 left now on my team.

    3 on the other.


    The previous Flanders 1917 game, I was sitting right in front of Ypre. I took it and held it against wave after wave of the enemies.

    Those 50 points plus the no-mans land points and then what, won the game.


    Now I am far far away. Had to subdue Belgian North Group.

    Done so, but get severely penalized for expansion.


    We have a 100 points thanks to AI and me.


    What are my options?

    - Ypre: a no-go. Going for Ypre w/o teammates' support, is suicide, as I know from last time. I only held Ypre because my supply lines were short.

    - Diksmuide: only 30 points and another severe additional expansion penalty to cover, because it is not next door and can't leave production sites of the enemy behind my lines.


    The only option to play right now = farming resources, build PO's to counter penalties, farm more, upgrade PO's and repeat...


    Farmville?

    we are 3 again... no that it matters, because AI plays better.


    I also understand from playing the 2nd time this map, that is basically a different set-up, where conquest is discouraged and only the points matter.


    So, I take back the above. When I play a 3rd one, applying new insights, I will see how that goes.


    I have a lot of complaints - especially about the BAD CHANGES crippling diplomacy, player interaction, the market etc - but...


    ... my compliments on adding a completely new type of map with a completely different set of priorities!

    In two games, the expansion penalty seems to have been replaced with

    huge distance to capital penalties.

    There are cases where the morale trend is 'rising', when the day to day change is negative.

    The 'distance to capital' is measure in days, not distance, and seems to be based on a slow turtle march.

    WIP?

    Watching carefully:

    Captured ONE province, expansion penalty increased by 9.

    Since province morale and country popularity are such crucial factors in this game,

    would be good to have more info on how they are calculated.

    Quote from Cycle9

    There are cases where the morale trend is 'rising', when the day to day change is negative.

    Indeed the provided information is confusing.


    Places with a high combined penalty, which by far outdoes the effect the effects of the PO in place, still rise.

    Places with higher level of PO and a combined moral boost that exceeds the penalties don't seem to rise (0r not much) or even slump.


    This way it is made very hard to know the effect and thus worth of ones investments in PO's and such.


    >> Does a moral trend get calculated on the basis of: (PO's + positive neighbors) - (expansion penalty + distance to capital + negative neighbors) ?


    >> If yes, does moral growth or decrease in anyway relate to the outcome of the above sum? I.e. a +10 total value results in 10% moral growth?


    >> Additionally: is there still a penalty for more wars? If yes, I do not see the indication of that. Or is this now incorporated in the AI attitude towards you, but has no direct moral influence?

    Expansion seems to be capped at -100.

    In four remaining games, there are no longer any 'at war with' penalties shown.

    Maximum observed 'distance to capitol' penalty: -40.

    Some 'neighbors' penalties exceed -60.


    Please post any similar observations.

    This system totally dont working.

    I did not attack anyone for 5 days, I occupied two additional provinces that belonged to the insurgents of neighboring countries. My punishment was probably from -10.

    And my popularity dropped from 77% to 10%. gg I'm in danger by bots.

    Popularity is still a topic in the office. Something that helps to avoid getting overwhelmed by morale issues is to not rush through another country. Rather assimilated enemy provinces slowly. Since Moral also has a major impact on the productivity of your provinces, you are at risk to start a negative chain reaction if your country grows too quickly and/or gets too big. Also keep in mind, that you can move your capital to a more centered province. That might help you as well.

    The rate at which a player captures enemy provinces has NOTHING to do with the expansion penalty, it still adds up,

    -9 for every province captured or revolt.

    When a player has been in FARM mode for 2 weeks, taking only 2 provinces, then suddenly at day change, has 5 more, due to revolts, and thus a -35 hit on morale, nothing can be done to rectify that situation, except maybe just quit.

    I decided to not do anything but spam PO's up to level 3 in EVERY province before doing anything else.


    So exciting to pop in, check the building progress and order new PO upgrades.


    The only risk I am at is that my generals won'tlet me back in the map next I try to log in, because my troops are bored silly, standing at the borders of their next targets.

    On The Great War map this expansion penalty is ridiculous. I reached -89. I won the game as it had a two week time limit but I had deliberately stopped trying to expand. There were only three active players at the end. I had 170 points. You need 837 points for a solo win in a non time limited game. That is completely unobtainable.


    I get the neighbors penalty but the expansion one is an order of magnitude too high

    Quote from MorkOfOrk

    On The Great War map this expansion penalty is ridiculous. I reached -89. I won the game as it had a two week time limit but I had deliberately stopped trying to expand. There were only three active players at the end. I had 170 points. You need 837 points for a solo win in a non time limited game. That is completely unobtainable.


    I get the neighbors penalty but the expansion one is an order of magnitude too high

    I dint see what's the fuss with the expansion penalty lol it might be brutal but if u know how to play then u can combat it easily lol I usually have the largest empire in late game but expansion penalty has nothing on me lol u applied to join. A week ago but I told no because u had less level now u are level 30 I am looking forward to have u in the alliance we operate through discord,