• Another thing you can do using diplomacy tab is to change diplomacy status to RoW or Share Maps status with all AI on the map


    final thing you can do to improve Global popularity is 100's of micro trades on stock market each day, buying or selling 1 unit at a time... or you can trade 5k silver for 5k silver with coalition mates, number of trades per day not the amount or the resource is what counts.

    See these two I tested quite a bit and can't really confirm. Especially the market and I did indeed test triple-digit amounts of trades in a day for sure. I saw no short- or long-term effect on popularity.

    And while RoW and Shared Maps (both to the exact same amount, too) do have an effect, it only seems plausible for this to become a factor in maps on which there are ideally several dozens of AI countries to do this with are available. The effect is also fairly minor and gets outweighed by negative influences very easily from what I've observed at least.

    Global popularity, is relative to other countries in your map, elite players use it to gain RoW with AI nations early on in the map, GP is only important prior to declaring any wars, with first war it goes out the window. Since it is relative, there is no concrete % at which AI will trade embargo or declare war on you however, a good indicator is being one of 5 most dreaded in the newspaper.

    And that, hnnnnnnnnnaaaahhhhh.... can't say this aligns quite well with my observations either, except for "with the first war it goes out the window" - that's certainly true as stated above and will make it all but impossible for practical purposes to attain peace with an AI since you evidently already are in at least one war if that's what you want. Unless obviously it's the AI left by a former player who declared on you, but even then... a few days of regular gameplay, which includes warfare as its major content, will tank your popularity enough. So you're absolutely right, GP is only important very early on and anything later in the game is damage control at best.

    However, you can spend literally an entire game in the Top 5 Most Dreaded and recieve trade embargoes at most. Where I have found it to become dangerous is once your popularity goes into the single digits. Anything below 10% or maybe a little earlier than that already and AI will start declaring on you left and right very indiscriminately. I suspect that up until that point, your average morale and the military strength that gets published in the DE play quite a role as well.

    So the way I play it is whenever there's a chance to possibly better it, like giving ROW, I do it, but I do it assuming it will not change the run of the game in any meaningful way. I keep an eye on my popularity to be ready once they start bumrushing me, but that's about it. At that point, you would usually be strong enough anyway for them to be not more than a slight bother.

  • I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that giving ALL AI right of way or share map won't make you more popular. From what I heard, the AI judges you based on actions towards it's allies, enemies, or itself. One AI might be hostile towards another AI and being friendly towards both will cause you popularity to not change as you are making the AI "upset" but "pleased" at the same time. Giving share map to a nation an AI's allies (those it gives ROW/Share map) makes you more popular with them but doing that to one of their foe's does the opposite. You end up having to choose which AI you want to befriend and which you want to be hostile towards, it's impossible to make ALL the AI like you. i saw this at play where an AI that was embargoing me gave me share map since I declared war on one of their enemies, and another AI who had share map took it away since I declared war on one of their friends. This is only from what I heard, but correct me if I'm wrong.

    THOUSANDS OF FEET MARCH TO THE BEAT

    ITS AN ARMY ON THE MARCH

    LONG WAY, FROM HOME

    PAYING THE PRICE IN YOUNG MENS LIVES

  • correct me if I'm wrong.


    AI [...] gave me share map


    I almost wanna say that AI traditionally doesn't do that. No AI in this game has ever shared its map with anyone.


    You do raise a good point though. I'm pretty sure AI is indeed supposed to have that kind of system where it knows to differentiate between friends and foes like that. I'm fairly certain it's also supposed to be based off of popularity, where attacking an unpopular nation is supposed to give you less of a penalty yourself. Would be sort of a double standard otherwise if AI just hates and hates you for going to war and then ends up going to war on you itself.

  • I don't understand why but it happened. I was playing a "Fall of Empires" game and the Jabal Shammar AI (this country is unplayable so it's always AI) gave me share map after I went to war with Persia. I know it's really rare, but it happened.

    THOUSANDS OF FEET MARCH TO THE BEAT

    ITS AN ARMY ON THE MARCH

    LONG WAY, FROM HOME

    PAYING THE PRICE IN YOUNG MENS LIVES

  • i saw this at play where an AI that was embargoing me gave me share map since I declared war on one of their enemies, and another AI who had share map took it away since I declared war on one of their friends.

    I am positive you never witnessed any AI give you "Share Maps", unless it was "BUG" that was occurring for some short time; even when you have share maps when someone is in your coalition, and the player goes inactive the AI which takes over will only give you RoW as highest diplomacy relations...


    If it has happened, it is clearly exception to the "rule" and not worth debating.


    Anyhow, I shared what I know is factual and the reason for giving all AI RoW is to hopefully get reciprocation, once wars begin these things usually are not going to happen and you only use AI to cause wars with opponents as a 'Buffer' or you harvest AI, is what it is...

  • It is possible that Elite AI grants shared map to players (not via a coalition or player inactivity etc.). It is not a bug. Witnessed that alot of times myself in tests. Although you probably have to play rather peacefully for that to occur.


    Trading with AIs also sloightly increases popularity with them.

    Giving right of way or shared map to an AI makes this particular AI like you a bit more.


    Declaring war on nations which a certain AI hates does indeed improve your popularity with this particular AI. Granting Right of Way or Shared map to a nation a certain AI hates does indeed decreased your popularity with this particular AI. Likewise it improves your standing with a certain AI when you grant right of way or shared map to a nation it likes, while it worsens your popularity with it if you declare war on a nation it likes.


    Having a big army while you are unpopular makes you more unpopular (perceived as bigger threat).


    Getting war declared onto you by someone does increase your popularity (AI has some sympathy).


    Doing a surprise attack one someone has no additional popularity penalty anymore, it is the same as declaring war normally.

  • Having a big army while you are unpopular makes you more unpopular (perceived as bigger threat).

    Does it also deter war declarations by AI though? That would line up with my observations.



    Doing a surprise attack one someone has no additional popularity penalty anymore, it is the same as declaring war normally.


    And that's quite huge. Since when is that the case and was this ever publicised? Also, how does that make sense? Also, why? This means that declaring war is completely irrelevant towards the game mechanics now?

  • Doing a surprise attack one someone has no additional popularity penalty anymore, it is the same as declaring war normally.

    This is a new one for me, I must have missed the notification if any was given in the description of new updates, thank you for letting us know this is no longer a factor ;)


    In a recent map I am seeing players on MOST POPULAR list which have expanded most rapidly ie. I have 40 provinces they have 120+ on day 18; and this expansion which can not happen without fighting wars, these same players which have highest percentage or military might...the only thing I can see how these players are so popular is that they have share maps with approx. 50 other countries in a 500 map, so it seems to me that this high diplomacy status of SHARED MAPS with so many countries is a HUGE factor.

  • share map with an AI is possible yes not very common but it can happen.

    the biggest problem with increasing your global liking by trade is you do not know who you trade with..

    if you trade with an AI and want right of way or better with that same AI it will help (if im correct its been a long time since i ever looked at the formulas lol) yet you dont know if you trade with that AI.. esp on large maps (100 and 500) the odds are very very much against you. morlikely to trade with a not so liked player then with an AI that you want to like you


    a long time a go the status you set with an AI was important too.. so the highest possible status with an AI would give you rightofway faster.. do not think that still works though..

  • a long time a go the status you set with an AI was important too.. so the highest possible status with an AI would give you rightofway faster.. do not think that still works though..

    Yeah from what I heard that was only a factor for the "old" AI, Elite AI supposedly doesn't care so much, but freezy's post up there seems to indicate otherwise. Then again, surprisingly enough he is referring to his "testing" as opposed to a "Game Designer" actually just, you know, knowing these things? Who designed that mechanic if not a "Game Designer"?


    It would sure be awesome if there was some documentation about this and we wouldn't have to be stabbing in the dark and taking people's explanations on faith like this is some sort of amateur open source project we're playing here. Hell, even those usually have their features documented much, much better than this one.

  • Does it also deter war declarations by AI though? That would line up with my observations.




    And that's quite huge. Since when is that the case and was this ever publicised? Also, how does that make sense? Also, why? This means that declaring war is completely irrelevant towards the game mechanics now?

    Since November 2019, see related news (you can still scroll down in the news list). In that release we also tweaked the other factors and introduced new popularity calculations. Intention was to remove pitfalls for newer players. There was no real gameplay benefit of having a nation get less of a penalty if they declare war 1 second before attacking (there never was a less negative effect for waiting X hours to attack after declaring war, it was only a check if war was declared at all). We didn't want to penalize players for missing out on it.


    AIs are currently more likely to declare war on smaller nations and less likely to declare war on bigger nations. We will change that so that AI is more friendly towards small nations while being more neutral towards big nations when it comes to war declarations.


    Yeah from what I heard that was only a factor for the "old" AI, Elite AI supposedly doesn't care so much, but freezy's post up there seems to indicate otherwise. Then again, surprisingly enough he is referring to his "testing" as opposed to a "Game Designer" actually just, you know, knowing these things? Who designed that mechanic if not a "Game Designer"?


    It would sure be awesome if there was some documentation about this and we wouldn't have to be stabbing in the dark and taking people's explanations on faith like this is some sort of amateur open source project we're playing here. Hell, even those usually have their features documented much, much better than this one.

    I know you like antagonizing me/Bytro quite a bit lately, but its fine. I am not the only game designer at bytro though, so I am / was not the only one who designs / designed all features or mechanics. I am also currently not assigned to do GameDesign on S1914 as I am focussing on CoW, I am basically answering here in my free time to help you guys out with answers.

    How Elite AI behaves was designed long before I even started at Bytro. Still I know this fact that they give shared map when the relations are good, I just wanted to tell you that I also proved it in practice and that it's not just a theory.


    The factors with which you can influence your popularity I listed in my post above.


    Sharing map with AI indeed has a bigger impact than sharing Right of Way with them.


    Alot of the game has not been documented somewhere since it was started 10 years ago and back then the standards on documentation have been much lower. This would not happen nowadays anymore of course since we are documenting every new feature. But alot of info on old fine grained mechanics are only buried in old codelines, with a lot of dev investigation required to extract their meaning and all edge cases where the mechanic intertwines with other mechanics. But even if we spent a huge amount of time to document all of that, we would not share all 100% of that with the community. That is also not common for other games. Usually there is a game manual (which we also have) were the most important aspects are listed, while more detailed info is shared within community guides and forums (which we also have), with room for players to figure stuff out on their own.

  • There was no real gameplay benefit of having a nation get less of a penalty if they declare war 1 second before attacking (there never was a less negative effect for waiting X hours to attack after declaring war, it was only a check if war was declared at all). We didn't want to penalize players for missing out on it.

    That makes sense I guess, although it's a bit of a shame, too. It makes war declarations superflous outside of "ceremonial" purposes, which I don't find too clean of a solution... changing it so that it would check for the time that had passed since declaration and first shots fired was not an option at all?



    I know you like antagonizing me/Bytro quite a bit lately, but its fine. I am not the only game designer at bytro though, so I am / was not the only one who designs / designed all features or mechanics. I am also currently not assigned to do GameDesign on S1914 as I am focussing on CoW, I am basically answering here in my free time to help you guys out with answers.

    How Elite AI behaves was designed long before I even started at Bytro. Still I know this fact that they give shared map when the relations are good, I just wanted to tell you that I also proved it in practice and that it's not just a theory.

    I think you misunderstood me a little, especially if you felt it was you that I was antagonizing. It's not, it's Bytro. I'm very thankful for your involvment here, especially seeing as you are the only one who even bothers with that, and that's pretty lame. I have not the slightest little feeling that Bytro cares even a tiny bit about anything posted in this forum unless it contains a curseword, because for all intents and purposes I have to believe that you are the only developer/"game designer" who ever shows up around here, and then you're not even assigned to this game anymore... yeah, I'll antagonize your employer for that any day. There used to be developers hanging around the (old) forums who spewed their knowledge all over the place, helped people understand obscure mechanics and showed legitimate interest in their opinions, I guess I'm a little spoiled from when that was still the case. It's absolutely nothing personal with you.


    Alot of the game has not been documented somewhere since it was started 10 years ago and back then the standards on documentation have been much lower. This would not happen nowadays anymore of course since we are documenting every new feature. But alot of info on old fine grained mechanics are only buried in old codelines, with a lot of dev investigation required to extract their meaning and all edge cases where the mechanic intertwines with other mechanics.

    At least from the outside, it seems quite a lot like documenting things is still very, very far from Bytros forté. I've been around for a while now, for by far the better part of those ten years actually. I'm not saying I remember every update and every piece of Docs that came out in that time, but there has definitely not been the kind of trend you're implying when you say "This would not happen nowadays anymore". I can list upwards of five things from most recent updates that I am sure or at least suspect heavily were changed/introduced with completely zero accompanying documentation. I'm also in the Help chat a lot and have to keep throwing the manual at people who don't know it exists, by the way. I guess that's a point for Bytro, "nobody reads that stuff anyway". To me it seems lazy and quite franky just odd that a mechanic like popularity is documented nowhere. Yeah, ten years ago, I get it, but that's also been ten years to write better docs and instead, tactical army view gets removed, resource trading gets crippled, 3D sprites are made... you know where I'm going with this. It's not like Bytro completely nuked everything but the code, including staff, and started from near scratch at some point. They had plenty of opportunities to improve on documentation.