Unbalance Gameplay

  • I jumped into a Tutorial game, the last spot. Oh Rumania ...great. From day 1 it's war and the newbies flex their extra unit muscle and artillery.

    The advantage to newbies I can understand. I don't mind the extra challenge to see if I can survive. I did. With some new coalition members, we managed to do OK for ourselves and we could reach 50% of the target VP with some coordinated teamwork.


    But that all comes to nothing today as a nearby nation, which has not made a single resource purchase via the stock market. This player has built 12 Lv4 factories, 8 Heavy Tanks, 9 Battleships, 4 bombers, 8 fighters and 2 railguns. The only way to build that is via spending GM. So basically the player just bought everything.


    All the effort our team put together is ruined because some player has more GM spending power. Not his gameplay, not via teamwork or by creating a coalition and working together. This so-called game is unbalanced and favoured towards those who spend GM, that's not a game. It's business.


    There is no fair gameplay or enjoyment when players are just steamrolled by massive GM spending players.


    Just brainstorming, but there needs to be a divided gameplay system started where there are games for players that have a limit to the amount of GM they can spend in a game. For example, people can join games for those who want to use GM earnt via viewing Advertising (or GM games won) and games in which players can use the GM they purchased from GM packages (or GM from games won.)

    Failure has a thousand explanations,

    Success doesn't need one. - Sir Alec Guinness.

  • @AA that doesn't make the game unbalanced. You could have chosen to do the same.


    I agree it's annoying if someone buys a lot of GMs to win, but that part of the rich tapestry of the game and has been since I started in 2013. TBF you see it more on the big maps.


    This IS a business after all. The people who develop these games need to find revenue streams to fund them. To pay their development teams etc. The two most used methods are pay to play or ingame purchases.


    I don't think we can complain if someone wants to buy a win. Just join another game.

  • Yeah Wilshire I could have done the same. To buy a lot of GM Is just something I cannot cash in and do. So that might brand me as not important but it is what it is.


    Thanks, yes the business side I do get and understand, I know the developers have to put a roof over their heads. They have to fund further developments of this great game so I am not complaining about that. Finding revenue is important I do know.


    I could join another game and drop out like so many here do. But no, I invest my time, my thinking and enjoy building a team and working with others to take our small nations to fame and fortune :))


    Anyway, I am probably barking up the wrong tree with little effect. Please feel free to remove this thread.

    Failure has a thousand explanations,

    Success doesn't need one. - Sir Alec Guinness.

  • A few thoughts..


    First, from the limited information available in your post, I am not convinced that this player is heavily using goldmarks.

    • Remember that this is a 4x speed game. I don't know how long this game had gone on for, but this level of building and units is easily achievable in 1 real life week (28 in-game days) without goldmark use.
    • Whether or not he has bought anything on the stock market is irrelevant and not indicative of goldmark use.
    • Also, this game is very much luck dependent. For example, it could be that two of his neighbours suicide-attacked each other and he manage to swop in to capture the provinces with little unit loss (and maybe even capture some of those provinces with high-level factories intact).
    • To really get greater clarity on whether he used large amount of goldmarks, we need to know how long the game has lasted, and you need to look at the newspaper to examine his development trajectory.

    Second, regardless of how he managed to get the units he got, you guys have a realistic chance of defeating him. Your game is not "ruined".

    • From your post, this guy does not have ANY artilleries. Given the importance of artilleries in this game, this indicates that he may not be very good at this game and that you guys have a decent chance of defeating him.
    • This is a 4x speed game, he needs to sleep/work and there are several of you up against him. Even if the time window is narrow, there would still have a sufficient time window for you to strike him when he is unavailable. Use artilleries to weaken his forces with no losses. Maybe the effects of this isn't too obvious in a single day, but it adds up over a few real life days.
    • If there are multiple players fighting him, you all have a natural advantage due to the morale penalty from war.
    • With good tactics and strategy, you can take out his mechanical units. Tanks can be countered by artilleries, you can split stack against his planes (while you gradually build fighters to counter his airforce). Railguns are relatively weak (mostly just for psychological effect). Battleships are more difficult to counter if he knows what he is doing, but battleship can only attack near the coast and has no effects inland. Read the strategy forum to learn more about the various tactics and tricks.

    Finally, maybe you will still end up losing, but

    • As someone already said, goldmark is part of the game
    • It is only through having these challenging fights that you become better at this game. See this as a learning opportunity to get better.
  • Whereas I get the GM revenue and building aspect. but giving them the option to increase morale while being bombarded makes them practically invincible. I think the GM is good for your business but when someone has spread like wild fire, has just about every nation at war with them, and their morale in every unit and province stays at 100% at all times even through a bombing run and bombardment is very unfair for those who cant spend GM on every single unit and province to keep up their morale.


    I'm in a 500 player war and this guy is using GM to keep every one of his provinces at 100 percent right after capturing it, builds 17 heavy tanks in one go to guard a province, keeps them at 100% the entire bombardment...hes invincible.


    so I dont think you should be able to improve morale to units or at the very least, have a combat cool down before you can use GM to improve morale..like an hour or 30 minutes after combat. thats the only thing I think should happen.

  • A few thoughts..


    First, from the limited information available in your post, I am not convinced that this player is heavily using goldmarks.

    • Remember that this is a 4x speed game. I don't know how long this game had gone on for, but this level of building and units is easily achievable in 1 real life week (28 in-game days) without goldmark use.
    • Whether or not he has bought anything on the stock market is irrelevant and not indicative of goldmark use.
    • Also, this game is very much luck dependent. For example, it could be that two of his neighbours suicide-attacked each other and he manage to swop in to capture the provinces with little unit loss (and maybe even capture some of those provinces with high-level factories intact).
    • To really get greater clarity on whether he used large amount of goldmarks, we need to know how long the game has lasted, and you need to look at the newspaper to examine his development trajectory.

    Second, regardless of how he managed to get the units he got, you guys have a realistic chance of defeating him. Your game is not "ruined".

    • From your post, this guy does not have ANY artilleries. Given the importance of artilleries in this game, this indicates that he may not be very good at this game and that you guys have a decent chance of defeating him.
    • This is a 4x speed game, he needs to sleep/work and there are several of you up against him. Even if the time window is narrow, there would still have a sufficient time window for you to strike him when he is unavailable. Use artilleries to weaken his forces with no losses. Maybe the effects of this isn't too obvious in a single day, but it adds up over a few real life days.
    • If there are multiple players fighting him, you all have a natural advantage due to the morale penalty from war.
    • With good tactics and strategy, you can take out his mechanical units. Tanks can be countered by artilleries, you can split stack against his planes (while you gradually build fighters to counter his airforce). Railguns are relatively weak (mostly just for psychological effect). Battleships are more difficult to counter if he knows what he is doing, but battleship can only attack near the coast and has no effects inland. Read the strategy forum to learn more about the various tactics and tricks.

    Finally, maybe you will still end up losing, but

    • As someone already said, goldmark is part of the game
    • It is only through having these challenging fights that you become better at this game. See this as a learning opportunity to get better.

    yeah we have an entire server fighting this guy. he spawned 33 heavy tanks, 20 battleships, sabotaged my entire province, built over 50 planes, and still keeps his units and provinces at 100%. its not a learning situation when out flanking and out maneuvering is just being stopped by buying units and keeping their morale at 100% at all times. He is spending an ungodly amount of money on this match and we have no chance.


    so the Goldmark is part of the game but using it to keep your units "invincible" should not be part of that advantage.

  • Ok.. i would say this amount of GM usage is uncommon. I have played 100+ maps, and I have encountered heavy goldmark usage like what you have described less than 10 times. On these rare occasions, I mostly ended up losing. But I still find it quite satisfying to make the person spend as much goldmarks as possible. Just note that this is not very prevalent. Moderate level of goldmark usage, yes. But using goldmark to constantly maintain troop and province morale at 100% is rare.


    Also, despite appearances, there is a chance that he may not be keep up his goldmark usage.

    • His use of goldmark is highly inefficient. For example, using goldmarks to keep morale of infantry stacks and province at 100% is very costly.
    • There is a goldmark sale which gives a 1000% (10x) bonus for goldmark purchase. This sale is only available once per account. He might have gotten his goldmark from this one-time sale. If so, when he depletes this batch of goldmarks, he will have to spend more real life money to buy it (at a more expensive price), which he may not.

    He would want you guys to think that he has unlimited goldmark to spend, so you all will give up. But there is a chance that if you guys keep up the fighting, he will run out of goldmarks...


    As a sidenote, I do think the 1000% sale is quite unbalanced as it encourages people to keep recreating new accounts just to take advantage of it.

  • Ok.. i would say this amount of GM usage is uncommon. I have played 100+ maps, and I have encountered heavy goldmark usage like what you have described less than 10 times. On these rare occasions, I mostly ended up losing. But I still find it quite satisfying to make the person spend as much goldmarks as possible. Just note that this is not very prevalent. Moderate level of goldmark usage, yes. But using goldmark to constantly maintain troop and province morale at 100% is rare.


    Also, despite appearances, there is a chance that he may not be keep up his goldmark usage.

    • His use of goldmark is highly inefficient. For example, using goldmarks to keep morale of infantry stacks and province at 100% is very costly.
    • There is a goldmark sale which gives a 1000% (10x) bonus for goldmark purchase. This sale is only available once per account. He might have gotten his goldmark from this one-time sale. If so, when he depletes this batch of goldmarks, he will have to spend more real life money to buy it (at a more expensive price), which he may not.

    He would want you guys to think that he has unlimited goldmark to spend, so you all will give up. But there is a chance that if you guys keep up the fighting, he will run out of goldmarks...


    As a sidenote, I do think the 1000% sale is quite unbalanced as it encourages people to keep recreating new accounts just to take advantage of it.

    yeah thats what we have been doing. we would flank him make him buy more stuff with his GM and then keep him doing it

  • A few thoughts..


    First, from the limited information available in your post, I am not convinced that this player is heavily using goldmarks.

    • Remember that this is a 4x speed game. I don't know how long this game had gone on for, but this level of building and units is easily achievable in 1 real life week (28 in-game days) without goldmark use.
    • Whether or not he has bought anything on the stock market is irrelevant and not indicative of goldmark use.
    • Also, this game is very much luck dependent. For example, it could be that two of his neighbours suicide-attacked each other and he manage to swop in to capture the provinces with little unit loss (and maybe even capture some of those provinces with high-level factories intact).
    • To really get greater clarity on whether he used large amount of goldmarks, we need to know how long the game has lasted, and you need to look at the newspaper to examine his development trajectory.

    Second, regardless of how he managed to get the units he got, you guys have a realistic chance of defeating him. Your game is not "ruined".

    • From your post, this guy does not have ANY artilleries. Given the importance of artilleries in this game, this indicates that he may not be very good at this game and that you guys have a decent chance of defeating him.
    • This is a 4x speed game, he needs to sleep/work and there are several of you up against him. Even if the time window is narrow, there would still have a sufficient time window for you to strike him when he is unavailable. Use artilleries to weaken his forces with no losses. Maybe the effects of this isn't too obvious in a single day, but it adds up over a few real life days.
    • If there are multiple players fighting him, you all have a natural advantage due to the morale penalty from war.
    • With good tactics and strategy, you can take out his mechanical units. Tanks can be countered by artilleries, you can split stack against his planes (while you gradually build fighters to counter his airforce). Railguns are relatively weak (mostly just for psychological effect). Battleships are more difficult to counter if he knows what he is doing, but battleship can only attack near the coast and has no effects inland. Read the strategy forum to learn more about the various tactics and tricks.

    Finally, maybe you will still end up losing, but

    • As someone already said, goldmark is part of the game
    • It is only through having these challenging fights that you become better at this game. See this as a learning opportunity to get better.

    i have to say, i agree with all of the above and i would like to say i love your strategic thinking.

  • Then more you will play, then more annoyed you will get about GM. At least to me this is the most p2w game what I ever played.

    So much disappointment I had after spending zillion hours spent time and planning tactics ingame. Last game what we played, all coalition members agreed to retire from this game, cos its was brutal. We had Asia and Pacific, from Americas were incoming army, we surrounded them at ocean, but we decided to let their army disembark at Japan and at that moment open fire on them, as that would be the most efficient. Amercias managed to disembark I dunno like 5 troops from all their army and in seconds they did build up, factories, rails, railguns, fighters, bombers tanks, you name it.

    All strategy and planning out of the window.

    Another game what stack in my game. Neightbour was blowing up my infrastructure with GM without invading me and NON stop fixing his airplanes after each raid. Impossible to do something against him. Blowing up my rails with GM, railguns stuck, fighters going down, cos I did not fix them with gm and so on. And on top of that player were toxic AF, cos he was the man u know.

    A lot of games where enemy just bought victory and time was lost for nothing.

  • ScaredyCat.

    Thanks for your input and shared ideas. I really do appreciate your thoughts, detailed and lengthy feedback.

    I went back as suggested to review the newspaper, day by day. There were warning signs there I should have picked up earlier. The game had been going 36 days. Day 35 and day 36 there was an influx of railways, factories, and other units which came online just before going to war.


    DAY35

    CAPITAL BUILT IN BRYDAH

    ARABIA: Official government communiqué, 06:24

    8:03 pm Beirut has a new Railway.

    9:50 pm ARABIA built the new Railgun

    9:53 pm ARABIA built the new Battleship

    9:54 pm ARABIA built the new Battleship

    9:57 pm Jerusalem has a new Railway.

    10:01 pm Beirut has a new Factory.

    10:11 pm Beirut has a new Harbour.

    10:12 pm Brydah has a new Railway.

    10:13 pm Tabuk has a new Factory.

    10:13 pm Fudukwan has a new Railway.

    10:14 pm Fudukwan has a new Factory.

    10:19 pm ARABIA built the new Railgun

    10:19 pm Angora has a new Barracks.

    10:21 pm Sinope has a new Factory.

    10:21 pm Rize has a new Railway.

    10:23 pm Adalia has a new Factory.

    10:28 pm Dimashq has a new Railway.

    10:29 pm ARABIA built the new Battleship

    10:32 pm Nicosia has a new Factory.

    10:34 pm Konich has a new Railway.

    10:38 pm Brusa has a new Harbour.

    10:40 pm Sinope has a new Railway.

    10:43 pm Tabuk has a new Railway.

    10:44 pm Famagusta has a new Factory.

    10:58 pm Angora has a new Harbour.

    11:14 pm An Nabk has a new Fortress.

    11:16 pm Jerusalem has a new Aerodrome.

    11:22 pm ARABIA built the new Battleship

    11:24 pm Brydah has a new Capital.


    DAY36

    BEIRUT PRODUCES NEW BATTLESHIP

    ARABIA: Official government communiqué, 13:28

    6:18 am Smyrna has a new Harbour.

    6:18 am ARABIA built the new Battleship

    6:19 am ARABIA built the new Battleship

    6:19 am ARABIA built the new Battleship

    6:20 am ARABIA built the new Battleship

    6:21 am ARABIA built the new Battleship

    6:27 am ARABIA built the new Battleship

    6:28 am ARABIA built the new Battleship

    6:28 am ARABIA built the new Battleship


    There was little I could do. It's a hard lesson and yes I will learn from it even in defeat.

    As I see it this kind of build and the resources needed can only be achieved via GM. Am I wrong?


    My own airforce was destroyed, outnumbered. With no air cover, I was just getting bombed and hammered by railguns.

    Retreating behind the railgun fire, my heavy tanks were outnumbered 2: 8 and lacked enough Artillery support. There was no way to advance and the fortresses I built were just taken and used against me.

    My battleships were outnumbered 3:12 and sunk. I had 3 subs but they were spotted attacking and were destroyed by artillery on the coast. So you can understand my frustration. I had a lot more infantry but not enough mechanical units to absorb or counter this kind of build.


    If my allies had have been close, yes I agree flanking and support would have been a great option. Yet they were in other regions and not able to support at all. Even I have retreated, I am followed and hammered by his airforce and he just instant builds railways so railguns can follow. There is no time to rebuild, all factories have been captured and are now being used by him.


    I will have to do some reading, have no idea what a split attack is and how to defend against an air attack when you have no air force. It will be a learning opportunity for sure. I can see from your description of other game experiences all players are having to deal with this same issue. My issue kind of fails in comparison LoL. So will just have to find a way of combatting and accepting the overuse of GM by some players, you are right it is a part of the dynamics of the game that will not go away.


    Again thank you for the shared advice. Well, I am still in the game. Limping, bleeding badly and bandaged. Will see how I go, how our coalition goes.

    Failure has a thousand explanations,

    Success doesn't need one. - Sir Alec Guinness.

  • Yes, he is definitely using some goldmarks. For example, building a harbour 10 minutes after building a factory in the same province can only be achieved with goldmark speed up.

    • 10:01 pm Beirut has a new Factory.
      10:11 pm Beirut has a new Harbour.
    • 10:13 pm Fudukwan has a new Railway.
      10:14 pm Fudukwan has a new Factory.

    As for the battleships, it is harder to tell from just the newspaper, because it could be that these ships were constructed in different provinces. You could tell if you were online at looking at the newspaper during the time window in which the ships were constructed (because the top headline in the newspaper can tell you about where the battleship/railgun is being constructed).


    I guess its too late for you now - there is nothing much you can do to resist him at this point. Most of the tricks and tactics requires at least some mechanical units (planes, artilleries, ships) to be effective. Once you lose most of your mechanical units and have little chance to rebuild them, then there is no coming back. It's hard to achieve anything with pure infantry in late game.


    You can find some of the strategies in this compilation. I learnt a lot from these posts when I first started this game.