Posts by LostRealist

Quote from freezy

The revamp evolved and improved alot in the beginning after we introduced it because we got alot of feedback on it back then.

I won't dispute that things have been done to Revamp then, but how much of a role player feedback played in that seems a little debatable to me. Was it player feedback that caused tactical army displays to disappear? Was it player feedback that caused the 2.5-D sprites to remain the way they are? Was it player feedback that led to it being much harder in Revamp to tell if a player is inactive or not and has in fact been made even harder just very recently? Why is it that nobody seems to realize how irrational some of these development decisions appear to somebody who's just playing the game? I also expressed my frustration about this before, so I'm also just repeating myself here. It just appears to the average observer that development may at the very most be cherry picking bits and pieces of consumer feedback it finds easy and cheap to implement while other, sometimes larger issues can get raised dozens of times and go unanswered and you wind up defending that by essentially saying "Well you guys didn't barrage us with inquests about the same issues over and over and over again for two years, so we didn't think you were serious when you first brought them up."

A sufficient amount of infantry on armed transport vessels could very concievably overpower a single ship. We're not talking 1 Inf here afterall but several thousand men. Historically, Battleships in WW1 were indeed vulnerable to situations like this as they were often not equipped with any weapon system to engage enemies at such close range at all. These things for example were used to some success against much larger vessels, however under the provision that they came close enough.

I'm by no means an expert on WW1 naval warfare though, so just from a gameplay perspective as well, making ships immune to infantry attacks would give them a massive buff. Any AI with exposed shores would be meaningless as soon as cruisers become a thing. Making them completely invulnerable to infantry on transport vessels also doesn't seem much more realistic, might I add. It's not like Inf deals a lot of damage on the water as it is or you couldn't protect your vessels from them. I consider it a big blunder on my part if one of my vessels gets caught with infantry.

Quote from freezy

The question was not which version is liked more by players. We already know from our marketing efforts that the revamp version works much better in attracting new users and growing the community again. The revamp was necessary to keep the game alive, because in the last years before the revamp we struggled quite a bit to attract new players and the overall numbers dwindled. And then with the revamp and the mobile version: boom, the game got its second wind and is now bigger than ever. We never planned to keep both versions alive forever because that adds alot of code complexity and maintenance costs, it was always clear that legacy will be phased out over time. Therefore also the decision to limit it to existing players (since we knew from our numbers revamp works better for new players). I think we communicated this outlook back then when we rolled out the revamp mode. The question now was just: When is the right moment to turn off legacy? The current numbers told us exactly that, they showed us that now the opportunity costs and maintenance costs of keeping this version alive are higher than the benefit it brings. I know it sounds harsh but that's the business. We have to go with the times. Software has to evolve in order to stay relevant on the market.

Sorry, but I think I acknowledged pretty much every single point you raise there in this thread before? I even specifically acknowledged, multiple times, that I agree that an overhaul was due of some sort. This is not the issue that I have. The issue that I have is that from all the input from actual customers of both products, the opinion has been unequivocally given that Revamp presents several major steps backwards compared to Legacy. Some of which are very glaring and some of which are very hard to get behind.

I want to keep playing and enrichen you guys by 5 bucks every 25 days for whatever it's worth but Supremacy in Revamp is very hardly worth that to me because it just got worse. This is the thing that your numbers do not show you. That you haven't "evolved" the game as much as made it less attractive, which isn't apparent if you only look at the number of new players brought in especially by the mobile market. I mean, come on, do you realize how many players a glorified slot machine for children like Coin Master has on that market? Do you want to be the kind of company that puts its name under a product like that? Under its bank account probably, yeah. But that can't really be the direction that the standards of Bytro are headed as well? Mobile players will make any garbage look amazing on paper if you only count their numbers. I fear you guys are getting distracted by those numbers from the feedback of players who get to compare the two designs and most importantly from the actual drawbacks, that are very much there after two years still, that it has to the previous one. Or you have decided that those numbers are good enough to make much less improvement neccessary, if any. Granted that's great for the company but it's a dang shame about the game itself.

Which, if you consider it enough of a disadvantage that mobile has, could lead you to the conclusion that it's not a good idea to play mobile. I mean there's never any harm in trying but I have serious doubts that you will get Bytro to change the design so the buttons are at least further apart, much less add a confirmation window. So if that's too bothersome for you, don't play mobile.

That would indeed be a final dagger through my heart.

Can't disagree with any of that, but I mean the thing is...

Quote from South Paw

This issue, along with other suggestions given by other players, is on the list for platform review by the fine folks at Bytro.

This has been "on the list" for "platform review" since May, the whole problem in general: GM being literally one of the only spending actions in the game that require no confirmation click is as old as GM itself and has been pointed out furiously since then. Bytro has been well aware for over ten years now that people are spending GM on accident. Make of that what you will. A motivation to change this issue I cannot make of that as hard as I may try. We all gotta eat I guess and this is clearly part of this company's business model - you're being naive if you think otherwise after a decade of people misclicking buttons that cost them real money and nobody batting an eye. Just... be more careful I guess. Stop playing mobile, too.

Quote from Golden Buddha

would like both button back: report article and report player as number of multis, pushers and gm denouncing articles have risen in maps where I play

But aren't you essentially calling Bytro a bunch of idiots if you imply they hadn't thought this might happen? It's clearly very obvious that fewer players would report content even if it is in violation of the ToS if the report function got confined in obscurity like this. It's also very obvious that GOs will now be less likely to follow up on reports as the whole function has become much less convenient on their side as well, having to look up the offending content rather than being shown it right away with no effort of theirs required at all. Bytro cannot convince me they didn't want both of these exact things to happen. Fewer reports, even fewer successful reports, fewer community management total. Tell your friends!

Yeah I'm sorry, I didn't wanna bust your bubble or anything. I'm just salty about revamp and you know why. I am at least glad that something is apparently happening.

Edit: I see what you did there.

Quote from Petruz

This is the time

This is the time now, not when it came out, or during the short beta stage, or the two years since. Now is the time. Anyone who had been letting the devs know what they thought needs to be changed at any other time was simply mistaken. Bytro's interest in its player's opinions just happens to be confined to very specific moments in time. We should all be much more understanding of that. (Well I guess it's "inofficial", so inferring that is actually not exactly fair. You struck a nerve with that phrasing though, sorry.)

Anyway, thanks for the survey, I'll obviously participate. Don't want anyone to say I didn't try.

Quote from Golden Buddha

what happened to my user Report button? My favorite button in the game is gone

They apparently felt it wasn't cumbersome enough for both users and staff to file and evaluate reports.

Quote from maraudingscot

MUCH easier to follow the OFFICIAL route........

SUBMITTING A REPORT TO THE SUPPORT TEAM.

Now that's a bit of an overstatement just counting the amount of clicks neccessary, isn't it?

You do have a point there, it did have some really nice features that were lost in the slimdown when maybe they shouldn't have been and it's hard to see why they were...

Quote from Golden Buddha

add legacy mode as and extra feature in High Command and we are solved

just remember to solve security issues with legacy once and for all

Depending on the price tag I'd pay for unsupported Legacy mode if that's what it takes.

Quote from Furry1

If not, you will lose a lot of the old guard and then you will lose newbies because they can't play it solely on mobile.

They'll also have nobody to spend GM against, right?

Plus, with overheating issues apparently not unheard of, playability on mobile also seems somewhat limited anyway.

I've been redoing my due dilligence with revamp. It's just a major inconvenience all around. If I accept the step backwards that I cannot have several games open anymore, the next problem arises: Loading a late game (a 100p game where my coalition holds roughly 1200 pts - you can about estimate how many units and how much territory is shown on my screen) takes 1-2 minutes. Layer after layer of terrain will grasp its way to life and then it will take a good bit after that's done until any armies are actually shown. That's pretty cumbersome but at least it's a one-time initial load, I don't have a problem with that quite so much as you can pass that time. Where it really starts to sting is when you have to unload all of those painstakingly loaded assets to go back to the game selection and load another game for possibly several minutes, a process that just repeats over and over and over again if I'm home on a Sunday and it's raining outside or whatever. And with Revamp consuming so much CPU while doing all of that, I can barely use my machine for other things in the meantime.

Just compare this to the way I can access the game with Legacy: I click the button, it loads in a new tab. I click the button on the next game, it loads in a new tab. I click the button on another game, it loads in a new tab. After an initial load that takes a late game to even be noticable at all, all of those games are loaded and remain loaded and I can access any of them at any time immediately until I close the browser, fall asleep or the heat death of the universe.

Can you see how much more accessible this is and what a huge step in the other direction the new system is? It squanders the games absolute base appeal by making this glorified board game (which I hope you know I mean as lovingly as one could) consume resources at that level, that defeats the purpose. I really wonder why you guys ever considered it unproblematic enough to release it like this, sorry. The resource hunger of the game seems to affect players on the important mobile market very badly as well with battery drain and heating issues. If there's any one issue you should tackle first of any of them and with the most devotion possible I personally think from a player's and a business perspective it must be this one.

And uhhh...

Quote from freezy

We have the numbers - how many players are still playing Legacy and how much revenue this version generates

Well, duh? No account made since 2018 even has access to Legacy, you don't really need to have those numbers to have a pretty good idea of the general look of them. Especially since the mobile version has obviously created a major boom in new accounts since then. That comparison is seriously flawed in many ways, which doesn't make it worthless, but I hope you are not mistaking this as any form of statement on the quality of either UI? Under the circumstances, clearly you couldn't infer from that that the new UI was better, or even good at all. All it is is a measurable effect of the company's decisions on which UI people get access to in the first place. A more interesting number would perhaps be the amount of people who have access to Legacy but switched to Revamp vs. those that did not?

Quote from Golden Buddha

I would like any mode that allows me to open several map-tabs without burning my processor so I can watch them all and change quickly. it is useful if you have 5 wars at the same time.

One. Thousand. Times. This.

I tried opening two games at once in revamp yesterday and ended up crashing Firefox entirely. I can already barely stream videos or suchlike while having one game open. In revamp, a game of Supremacy is a fullscreen commitment kind of game when it used to be a casual browser game you had open on the side while using your computer for other stuff. It's no wonder so many new players are frustrated by the slow pace. The way the new UI handles suggests it is indeed made so that you'd have the game open and do nothing else but play it - when things take hours to days. This is just way, way, way too heavy for a game like this. I used to be able to have five, six, seven games opened at once to switch between them quickly, have an eye an all of them, and could still stream HD video or even play other games on the same machine. That ability is being taken away from me now, it's just a step back. To me, the product gets worse here when even the mere setting in which I played it isn't possible anymore. I really have a hard time seeing myself give Revamp another chance in January under these circumstances. The entire appeal of a light, casual little game on the side, is gone. I could just as well go buy a better, highly detailed, full 3-D AAA game with a huge budget and play that now. It'll give me about a simultaneous amount of other use of both my machine's resources and my time while it's running.

Quote from LightningTurk

I sure miss java.....

I don't, java was clunky and I actually liked the "streamlining" of the design they did when they made that switch. Good example of a design change, albeit fairly minor, that neither I nor many other people rejected. It's not about change. It's about what it changes into.

Quote from November Terra

you're dreaming if you think the future is in the past.

Someone was bound to bring it up. It's not the greatest of comparisons if you consider for how long the individual designs had been running when they got phased out and at what stage of the company's growth they were made, but alright.

I don't have a problem with a UI change. I agree it was due. I have a problem with the way the new UI was made. The way it compares to the previous one in usability and, quite frankly, craftsmanship. How rough it is around the edges after two years, how many core issues with it remain. And what a major resource hog it is, way overweight for a browser game.

We could be having a much different conversation here as far as I'm concerned if it weren't for those things.

Quote from Raman02334

Ahh wait I can play gta5 and cs:go non stop for hours without facing this issue

This is a serious thing, yes. I have a machine that is dedicated to running Microsoft Flight Simulator X with ~50 very resource intensive addons, including about 300 Gigabytes of high-resolution textures and it yields me around 40 FPS there, which is pretty darn good for FSX standards.

A game of Supremacy in the new UI, especially one where there's lots of units and large parts of terrain visible on my map, stutters like hell, can take up to a minute to load the armies when I open it, it's very, very clunky in general. This is for a 2D RTS game from 2008. Add very poor optimization to the list of things that plague the new UI. Or rather leave it on that list, as this has also been commented on quite a lot with even the early beta build of the UI but was apparently considered unimportant so it rolled out like that anyway and probably can't be fixed in that regard easily, if at all.

Quote from Hastings TNT

I have noticed that units will temporarily vanish when orders are given to them, then these units re-appear a few seconds later, but this does not seem to be same issue 'twts' has described?

I don't think so, I think it reads like his dudes are gone for good, especially considering this part:

Quote from twts

5 of these 6 units disappeared and the remaining unit has about 30% morale. They started at 100%

To me that sounds like a unit that got shelled pretty good.

I'll be interested to see how many players singing their farewells we can gather in this thread. It couldn't be more obvious that the new UI has glaring issues than when you see all these loyal players here explaining their departure because of it. It's just such a shame to bury this great game under it.