Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1

    Total strength - is it misguiding the players and hurting the game?

    You may skip directly to "The Feedback" or read from here.

    Discovery:

    I recently went through the manual more thoroughly than what I had done before only to discover that I had fundamentally misunderstood how warfare worked within the game. In my previous games I had used total strength, which is displayed when clicking on an army, as a guide to whether or not I would win a battle. If my army was of higher total strength I assumed I would win the battle. Throughout so much of the first month playing a game this is often true. Artillery and other ranged machinery appeared the only instrument with which to alter a battle such that the army with a lower total strength would be able to win. But so often in the late game I would lose major battles where total strength of my army was the greatest and I couldn't understand why I lost so utterly.


    Size factors:

    In the manual under 5.2 in the section warfare you can find among the notes a mention of size factors. It very generally explains that at some point each additional unit of a type is going to be less effective for damage output. If you look at the infantry type you will find that this begins as early as with your sixth regiment (unit). I then did some math on what kind of damage output I could expect from a infantry only army. Without taking morale into account it seems that the maximum damage output you can get from any number of infantry stacked together is 12.6. In fact any additional infantry above 40 regiments (units) does not contribute to the army's damage output.

    Misguiding players:

    Players within the game has access to the information displayed as total strength when considering their chances in battle. I, and I am sure many others, have not seen the benefit of producing cars and cavalry for other reasons than their speediness as they seem to affect an army's total strength no more than 1 or 2 infantry would. Knowing that adding different unit types to an army is the only way (other than increasing morale) to increase damage output once an army of infantry reaches 40 units or more would fundamentally change how players play the game.

    Total army strength appears to be a value that is never directly used (if size factors are affecting the army) and seems pretty useless on its own. The two values relevant to a battle would be an army's damage output per cycle and how much damage it can take which I believe would be the army's total hitpoints.

    The Feedback:

    The total strength of an army tells you the damage output of the army if size factors were not affecting it. Since size factors most often are affecting it this is useless information and is misguiding the player to make assumptions about how a battle is going to progress. I can not think of a more unfortunate problem for a game than to have its players lose and not understand why.

    My suggestion:

    Do not display total strength value when clicking on an army. Instead an army's total hitpoints and/or the real damage output of the army per cycle would be more useful. Both values will decrease in battle and make it easier for people to understand how warfare works in this game.


    Admissions:

    I have not checked that everything is as I have stated in practice. All I have done is to try and understand the manual and how it relates to my experience of playing the game. I am sure I'll have to edit somewhere.

    Feel free to point out errors, mistakes or if anything's unclear or needlessly complicated.

    Also a big thanks to an old thread by Dr. Fieber for inspiring me to go through the manual again
    Last edited by BlackZ; 11-14-2017 at 10:44 AM.

  2. #2
    Greetings, BlackZ.

    Thank you for voicing your concerns regarding the userfriendliness
    of the manual. Your feedback is truly appreciated and I feel inclined to agree with you. New users can have a hard time understanding the manual, which in turn may discourage them from exploring the game.

    With the abovementioned in mind, I would like to mention that we strive to improve the userfriendliness of the manual and thereby the gaming experience for all participants of Supremacy 1914. Therefore, the manual has been put on a list of possible improvements.

    Best Regards,
    Alexiel Lucien
    EN Server Super Moderator
    Bytro Labs | Supremacy 1914
    As a side note: Perhaps I will be able to explain things that is not covered in the manual and as such, should you ever feel that you would like to talk about battle mechanics, then by all means, please do send me a message ingame and I will get back to you whenever possible.
    Last edited by Alexiel Lucien; 11-14-2017 at 07:41 PM.

  3. #3
    Unregistered
    Guest
    I agree that it is not helpful and furthermore is misleading and that a change to this would be a great suggestion!

    I think it would be helpful to see attack power and hit points when a stack is selected (the modified values based on morale/condition).

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Rheen View Post
    I agree that it is not helpful and furthermore is misleading and that a change to this would be a great suggestion!

    I think it would be helpful to see attack power and hit points when a stack is selected (the modified values based on morale/condition).
    If you hover with your mouse above the part where it states the total strength of a unit at the bottom bar, then a box will appear and provide you with additional values like seen here:

    Name:  b5uAd2kxQYuB6HHypehuqg.jpeg
Views: 21
Size:  60.5 KB

    Furthermore, if you click on the unit icon at the bottom bar like seen here:

    Name:  Z1Dnw2gDSbi0rtk8OedYAQ.jpeg
Views: 21
Size:  82.2 KB

    Then you will be presented with this neat window:

    Name:  Lvy89yW1RV_XpO2V8ccPcA.jpeg
Views: 21
Size:  157.0 KB

    It will display additional values such as health points and the damage efficiency of that unit along with a few other things.
    Last edited by Alexiel Lucien; 11-16-2017 at 12:22 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexiel Lucien View Post
    If you hover with your mouse above the part where it states the total strength of a unit at the bottom bar, then a box will appear and provide you with additional values like seen here:

    Name:  b5uAd2kxQYuB6HHypehuqg.jpeg
Views: 21
Size:  60.5 KB
    I like this a lot. I don't know how intuitive it is that you can hover over total strength to reveal additional info, but at least the information is there.

    I do notice that at this time I am not able to hover over total strength for enemy armies to reveal their attack damage. Since this is possible for anyone to calculate once an army is revealed I see no reason why one shouldn't be able to gather the same information about those armies.

    Since some unit types have different values for attack and defense damage there is sometimes a benefit to knowing both when you hover over total strength of an army.

    I also like that you can see damage efficiency as it tells you that the army is not working to the full potential of each individual unit, although it doesn't tell the player why. If I was a new player I would've very much liked a hint at why my damage efficiency appears so low - is it bad and what can I do about it?

    I have some other queries about battle mechanics so I'll take you up on the offer to message you ingame as I don't want to derail the thread.

    Thanks very much for the quick and welcome reply, and the work that's been done and thanks to Rheen for backing me up.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackZ View Post
    I do notice that at this time I am not able to hover over total strength for enemy armies to reveal their attack damage. Since this is possible for anyone to calculate once an army is revealed I see no reason why one shouldn't be able to gather the same information about those armies.
    Well, this is something that I would like to comment at some other point; however, let me give you some advice until then.

    If you know the amount of a certain stack, e.g. 30 inf., and if you know their damage efficiency, e.g. 29%, along with the theoretical maximum attack strength per individual unit displayed here:

    Name:  F87F6FTZTCaelnFJFnZyJQ.jpeg
Views: 20
Size:  158.9 KB

    Note: Can also be looked up in the manual in section 5.2 and 5.3, or by simply taking the first value of the columns in the 'attack damage' tab within my data spreadsheet, which you can find in the 'general discussion' section of the forum.

    Then we can apply the following formula to calculate the attack damage of that unit:

    Code:
    (Amount of unit * theoretical maximum attack strength per unit * damage efficiency)
    
    (30 * 1.2 * 0.29) = 10.44
    Note nr.2: If you have multiple unit types in one and the same stack, then you need to calculate everything separately and then add it on to the rest like this: [(21 inf. x 1.2 x 0.36)] + [(5 AC x 1.2 x 1)]...

    If we go back and hover with our mouse above the 'total strength' at the bottom bar, it will state 10.4 attack damage since it rounds to one decimal. This is perhaps not what most players have in mind and not the most convenient way to do it, but it is better than nothing. So for now, grab pen and paper if you wish to calculate the attack damage of enemy units.

    Edit: To avoid further derailing the thread, I'll refrain from commenting on anything not related to the original content.
    Last edited by Alexiel Lucien; 11-16-2017 at 03:16 AM. Reason: See edit.

  7. #7
    as Alexiel said the information is hidden in there. I do agree that the number isn't truly right however it gives the idea of the damage an army can soak up e.g. 200infantry fighting 80 infantry both have the same attack power however the200 will win as it has more units to soak up the damage. SO as long as you don't combine stacks the numbers are usefull the moment units are combined it becomes indeed a bit harder. Especially as combines stacks can deal a lot of additional damage. Even to the point where they'd destroy a bigger army consisting of only infantry.

    I think it's partially intuitive that you'd have to combine units , especially pre WWI style. WWI saw the change towards a more infantry based army (due to trenches on the western front). But If I'm honest it took me a long time to learn that you needed to combine units too. And in 70% of the cases it won't make a lot of a difference in some other cases against experienced users it can indeed make huge changes

    Questions about the game? Have a look at the manual.
    Need game support? Send a ticket or contact the crew.
    Bored of inactive games? Join EnSeCo.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •