Thank you. The return of legacy mode is a unexpected surprise, but a welcome one. If you can make the new mode as clear and user friendly as supremacy in the next months, im sure the comunity will be more receptive towards it.
revamp path finding broken to the core
in legacy when AI/Human took ROW from you all paths were recalculated to avoid causing war, from what I remember. Since revamp came I caused ,only in one map, 15 unintentional wars. troops were not stopping after ROW was removed and marching into enemy provinces. Rally points were pushing new units straight through everything not even checking if we still have ROW.
looks to me that revamp pathfinding works only once- when you give order to move or create rally point.after that 0 checks are done if the route is still valid. whoever removed those check should bring them back. remove graphic from revamp, not mechanic that is needed for game to continue normally. noone cares about nice models but when game causes you 15 wars because it's systems are broken
ofc everything started when someone decided to change popularity system without proper in-depth testing how this will influence gameplay, but this is another story
all to all revamp is so broken and probably unfixable ( if almost nothing was done to fix it for 2 years) GMs and HC are here to save your time but revamp forces you to quadruple check if everything works as it was intended to because of multiple issues. so you finish fixing yourself all bad commands revamp has done. Revamp does not meet any criteria of p2W software unfortunately and should be shut down immediately till it is in playable state , not some alpha stage. it is not playing anymore - it is fighting UI and fixing all mistake UI and server have made.
that is ofc my private opinion as a game designer and pro-player: waste of time to use revamp as you are forced to spend several times more time than playing same map in legacy
you can have your own opinion but it starts to remind me Cyberpunk when they released it
This is so true. I also caused already 2 unitentional wars whith AI because of the pathfinding, something that never happened to me before. I also saw some other players having the same issue.
Extra info i just noticed. I cant even diferentiate information from what i see from unit view range, from information from spies. They use to have a different look. Now they dont. Another thing to improve
I like the AoE II analogy and completely agree with you on that a decrease in usability is not preferable. However somewhere else a comparison with windows 7 and 8 was made, which I found to be far more fitting. Win7 was a gem. It was functional fairly soon after launch, it as intuitive once you got used to some key functions and a large portion of systems ran it so it was well supported.
Then game windows 8. Lets simply not talk about windows 8. It was terrible and doomed to fail for desktop users right at the start. Creating an "all in one" solution has downsides for everyone and upsides for only a few.
Fortunately this is not what we're trying to do. We have a dedicated desktop and mobile viewmode so we don't have to pack everything into one mode. I'd like to compare legacy and "new" to windows 7 and 10. Let me emphasize that I was determined to use win7 for as long as possible as I knew everything I needed to know for my daily work and private interests. Win10 didn't appeal to me, it was new, I didn't want to relearn processes that I had already mastered and it promised little to no advantage at that point.
I was pretty much "pissed" when I was forced to switch due to discontinued support for win7 and work. I quite literally made an effort to downtalk win10 and to boycott it, but eventually had to give in. Everything looked weird, I was upset because some functions were different and I simply didn't know as much as I did in win7. I still knew how an operating system works however. I knew how do utulize a task manager, how to set up my hdds and not to delete sys32. Pretty much all it took for me to accept win10 was to get used to some redesigns and to accept that it isn't exactly like win7 in every way. By now, I don't even recall what win7 supposedly did better. Win 10 outgrew its baby issues as it saw continuous support, many others switched to it so I was able to learn from and with them and now I'm at a stage where I will probably defend win10 until the bitter end.
Long story short: we're not trying to force you to play a desktop strategy game with a mobile oriented view mode. We're already evaluating your feedback on how to improve the "new" standard and will continue to improve it over time. In the end every one of us at Bytro invests 8-9 hours a day working on something that is related to our games so you can be damn sure we're not just doing whatever without thinking about it first. In some cases we're limited by time, in some by ressources but in none by willingness to improve. To be honest, we're all just human so in rare cases we simply might not see the best solution right away or have to correct ourselves. This doesn't mean we will roll back to legacy and throw every hour of work that went into the now standard mode over board but instead we'll try our best to learn and incorporate feedback in order to do the best possible job we can.
Textwall over, Slyx out
(not really but it sounds cool)
Very interesting ideas. I do agree, i had similar experience whith w7 to 10. Its a great comparrison but is the new mode truly w10 , or actualy w8? I would say as it is, whith no changes, the new mode is w8. Not user friendly, unecessary, a step backwards from legacy. I say this beause just like i did whith w8, im actualy giving a shot to the new mode, but i still havent found the "oh this isnt that bad actualy" moment. What i keep finding is frustration, and a bigger and bigger desire to return to "w7". Maybe whith further updates and good feedback, the new mode might become "W10". But atm. I dont see it. And the irony of this new mode is the more i play the current round whith it and the game naturaly gets bigger and whith more units, all the disavantages become more and more apperant. The reasons for this ive already said in other posts, and a lot of people have made good feedbacks about it. So whoever designs the Ui has some decent material to work whith.
I do hope the devs can turn this arround.
Ic3, nothing in life is apples to apples for a comparison, not even apples.
The point I try to make, is that the game remains. Graphics, controls and features change as the player base changes to support their expectations because things in life and technology advance or digress.
I played 'PONG' when it was first introduced. I would not waste the time now to do so, but back in the day, it was amazing.
My expectations have changed drastically from those early days, and simple is not always best, especially when compared to the success of the CoW franchise. You build on success at the expense of established norms at times.
This is one of those times. Legacy, like Java, will be a memory that will rival my recollections of "PONG' as time marches on.
Fun in it's time. But that time has passed.
Everything you say is true. However it is also true that some games dont appear to ever die. Or even outlive their sucession. The reason you left pong is because the expectations today are better and more refined., but poing is still pong. Supremacy isnt dead. People still want to play it. And this is , imo, not a case of a a shift in player base. Yea, whithout legacy the game will still move on, but imagine AoE2 had an update that completely changed the UI for something objectively worse. Its not a matter of what the players expect, is a matter of product quality decreasing. Unfortely, gaming in the last years have had their expectations very low which allows companies to do some "interesting" actions, specialy attempting to appeal to a mobile market.
Fun in its time. I agree. I used to love MMOs now cant stand them. But i still want to play supremacy, i havent outgrown supremacy. Most people left my game after the new mode became mandatory. I stick arround, i give every shot i can to this UI, but it just makes the game worse. Yea fun has passed, not because i outgrew a game, but because the game outgrew me to something i belive is worse. I dont belive im alone. And the fact after 1year+ of adding the new mode people still have the pitchforks out because they do still enjoy supremacy.
Pong is a good example actualy. The game is what it is, still similar to what it was. If you do enjoy the game, you can do it right now. But making an UI this bad means i want to play a game, but cant force my self to fight an awfull AI that barely lets me see whats going on. At least pong is... pong.
An interesting read so far.
There are a few in here that will recall Java. It went away and the players grabbed their pitchforks and things became a bit 'interesting' for a while.
The player base recovered as they adapted to the changes.
Now, Legacy is gone, as Java has long ago.
And yet again, the pitchforks come out and the discussions are interesting.
I note a few things about this. First, the loyalty of those that play this game. Not to simply kick some rear, not to be smug. We play to have fun. To teach. To learn.
The game is the same as when it was Java. The format changes. So do cars. Phones. Heck, even kids change as time goes by. And we adapt to these changes and still find enjoyment with the changes.
This will be a growing pain. No doubt. But, constructive feedback is what will improve upon the issues. Same as when we went to HTLM from Java, and from Legacy to what is here now.
I for one, will still find enjoyment in the game. It remains intact from a strategic point of view. Just different seats and transmission to deal with is all.
I would ask the vets to find the issues. Report them and be patient to allow for corrections and improvements. We have been here a long time. I for one, intend to be here for a long time yet to come.
The thing is, legacy was a step forward from java. Imo legacy was a big improvement to java, ive seen a few arguments against it but they are far and weak. I havent played much of this game in the java era, but i took the liberty to refresh my memory whith the images. The new mode is a step back. If legacy was a clearer and simpler UI to java version, the new version is the exact oposite.
So although its true players sometimes complain about every change to what they are used to, i dont think the situation is exactly the same
Btw i forgot to say this in my first post. Many people already pointed this out, the icons are bloody huge. I can barely understand whats going on when a car is the size of a province, boats the size of countries. Rework this, make them much smaller and less impactefull on disturbing the view, and have low graphics mode be as similar as possible to legacy mode
please direct all comments about legacy mode to this thread [S1914] Legacy-Removal Feedback Thread so that we may hear everyone's criticisms, feelings and feedback. thank you!
Yea i have already, just talking to my friend here. Im sure its unconfortable that people are spreading the discontent around but tough luck. I made my criticism in the apropriate thread, but im still free to discuss the theme in other threads if the topic comes to conversation.
Never played on legacy mode? You poor soul, at least you dont need to feel the pain of not having legacy mode. Good sugestions, but we keep telling them the amount of problems in the new mode they dont care. Its amazing how a few of these were not an issue in legacy.
As soon as my round is over, bye. I created a forum account just to give them my feedback but its pointless. We already told them a milion times, they do not care.
Fools? I think you are the one trolling. If your desktop from 2010 can handle the new UI then you have never been in a 500p map, owning 1000+ provinces and more then 10.000+ units to move around. Lets see how your desktop handles that. I bet it explodes as my freshly new build desktop from 1 year back cant handle it.
And when I look at your profile you dont have any medals for 500p maps so no, you have never been in a late stage of a big map before. + your account was created in 20 november 2020 so you have never played the Legacy mode. You are not really in a position to say things that you are saying right now.
Ignore the trolls, dont answer them it makes them proud. All players that actualy care about this game know the truth.
I feel everything we say is and will go into empty ears. Its clear as day. Most of the comunity does not like the new mode. If you are too proud to admit this, at least let us use legacy mode. There are multiple reasons the new mode is worse, i will list a few of them:
-The icons, huge, awfull, prevents you from getting a clear view of what is going on
-The only way to even use the new map imo, is whith the "low grapics" mode. Thats how bright and awfull the standard version is
-You cant even easily tell if a player is inactive or not, and sometimes is staright up impossible if they lost their capital
-You almost have to bring a microscope to understand if someone built factories or not
-The icons, again, so so bad.
-The new UI is also terrible, overcomplicated, i miss having the view of the actual town, much better. This is clearly a mobile AI. But most of your veteran playerbase prefers PC, keep that in mind cause we are also the ones who buy more goldmark.
- Cant use anonimity in newspaper
-Everythings feels too big or bigger then it had to be. Cough cough mobile port cough
-Its cool to see when the next attack ticks
-The journal looks cool... i guess, and still uses the old legacy for the overall world image, which is ironic...
-The administritive view is pretty much the same, but actualy sligthly worse if you have a lot of provinces, but at least you didnt try to change it.
- I like the bar whith the resources, looks decent
-Can see the aproval ratings, not a very important mechanic, but at least can see it.
I honestly do not belive you can make the new mode better or even close to the legacy mode whithout completely making it from scratch. My sugestion? Keep the legacy mode, leave the new mode for mobile or for anyone that prefers it, and patch the ocasionaly bug in legacy. Im sure you can manage having 2 modes and not go bankrupt.
Forcing everyone to play on these mode and creating a post for us to complain just shows that you know how much we hate this mode and just refuse to accept it. This was the first and last time i will talk in this forum cause i honestly feel like it all falls in unreceptive ears. I have tried the new mode, i do not like it. And if keep getting forced to play whith it, i will leave this game as soon as my current round is over.