Are there criteria? Are they followed?

  • Are there criteria? Are they followed?


    I have now received a message that was removed from the game for pushing account.


    Administrators, I am participating in a game on English server with some friends, and I have now received a message that I was removed from the game for account pushing.



    Simply put, not even an evaluation or investigation of the matter.


    During the course of the match, one of my Taumalipa allies (Luis) was under attack and I deployed troops to defend his territory, I Cuba (Angelo).



    Texas from the south at one point in the game (yesterday if I'm not mistaken) questioned what I was doing and if I didn't explain it to him it would be double counting. I didn't bother to answer him because I was aware of my actions.



    Today the system comes and gives a ban without at least questioning us, evaluating different IPs or any other intelligent management that can prove that we are not the same person.



    How is that? What credibility do you give to the users? Will we have agility in the evaluation of this request? Will Luis and I be rewarded for any delay?



    Very bad the current evaluation of the game support, which simply accepts complaints from spoiled players without basic fulfillment of investigation.





    How can the system accept a request without going through an analysis?


    It is absurd not to conduct investigations or even question us to collect information or even to enable us to defend ourselves.


    They simply accept the denunciations as true. It is as simple as that, and this is absurd.



    Where is the legal security? Who is the judge? How does he act? Does he favor friends or allies? Does he act without study, without criteria?


    Are there basic observation protocols for this kind of demand? Were they followed?


    Questions like these remain open, after all, we have done nothing wrong in relation to the rules and with a clear conscience we can face any demand of this type, as long as it is not arbitrary, closed and absolutist, which, besides frustrating us, leaves doubts about the criteria of fairness of the game and margins for negative interpretations such as:


    Would the administrator be a prepared person?


    If so, why doesn't he communicate with us and just impose penalties on those who received a report? We didn't even know we were denounced, that's what we know after the punishment. How is this absurd? Imagine a society where a neighbor accuses another of theft and this one is arrested without knowing why and even without the right to explain, what would you think of this?



    Absurd, of course. Now the question is, why administrators have the power of Absurdity in their hands, using it to target players (clients). Are they favoring some friend or acquaintance? They are acting without criteria is what common sense tells us! Now they are also acting in bad faith? After all, they don't have transparency, an empire of force versus their clients, that they have!



    Slowness? Probably yes, after all they are quick to punish, probably slow to assess, which impacts on the losses to all, after all, would the player who denounced us an integral person or would be using the strength of the system (that you know and know that does not evaluate well) to punish opponents who meet on the way.


    This grudge is worthy of the weak, who for not being able to reach his opponent directly, seeks to reach him by dirty tricks, and the worst, accompanied by the endorsement of the administration that passes for unworthy to not be clear, transparent and with harmonic purpose, because it does not offer ample defense or contradiction to the customers that it punishes.



    Bad analysis of the administrators of the game, who act in order to harm the same instead of fulfilling its role to harmonize it.




    The game to which I refer is on English server:

    #4259637 currently on day 08.

  • Absurd! Again I repeat, no analysis, simply the use of force to possibly favor some partner in the round or something. We do not act disloyally, irregularly, or dishonorably either in game or out of game.


    Absurd accusation and even more absurd for the administration to act as it does!




    Shameful!

  • Thank you Hastings TNT.


    Is this an indication that the game rule CAN be used to favor the administrators and their friends? Shouldn't we at least have criteria for "hiring" administrators or prevent them from playing as regular people?


    After all, the one who punishes me, acts as he prefers, does not explain the reasons, does not ask for clarification and errs in punishing with pushing accusation, the one who does not use this artifice.


    An unfair rule, unfair actions! I hope for a solution, and for more preparation and training of actions by the administrators. I hope they are not tyrants within the game, and that they never use the power given to them to punish correct people. But, that they always use it in favor of harmony and the welfare of all. For this they need to be worthy of the functions of administration.


    I hope that this administrator can give us his opinion, so that if he is wrong, he can reformulate his actions! Or, if he remains in error we will know that he is a Dictator who received powers of the game, to harm the game itself and those who participate in it.

    One thing is certain in this evaluation. You will find no error in my actions, nor in the actions of my friend Luis.

  • Bytro staff making these discretionary decisions and enforcements in most cases are volunteers (Game Operators), however I think your case the Ki-Ros respondent is actually a vetted and paid employee of Bytro , so you have no argument volunteer vs Paid employee.

    Embrace your true nature , enjoy games and have fun!

  • There are criteria, we do obviously not grant everyone who kindly asks admin rights or the role of GO.

    We also act on any case where an abuse of power is reported and confirmed (despite what a dedicated handful of players seem to think).

    If you get removed from a match for account pushing, multi accounting etc, you will never get a detailed list of the exact line of argumentation as this would inflate the time it takes to work on support reqeusts by a multitude. GO's are instructed to follow guidelines but in the end should also use their own judgement as veteran players to make a call. This has proven to be a very reliable modus operandi on the grand scale and helps us to offer support for multiple languages within reasonable time.

    Every case of rule infrignement involves a varienty of checks which I can not disclose in detail to not give potential rule benders hints at how to avoid some of these. You can be sure though that GO's will not have to ask you for your IP or similar things to confirm these.

    In the case above Ki-Ros is indeed a paid employee so I can guarantee there is no benefit for him in removing people from a map for his own benefit, as he will not be present in that game round with a personal account.

  • There are criteria, we do obviously not grant everyone who kindly asks admin rights or the role of GO.

    GO's are instructed to follow guidelines but in the end should also use their own judgement as veteran players to make a call.

    In the case above Ki-Ros is indeed a paid employee so I can guarantee there is no benefit for him in removing people from a map for his own benefit, as he will not be present in that game round with a personal account.

    I would ask that community is given more clarity on this Account Pushing rule, I feel it is vague in comparison to many other rules S1914 has in place, relying upon volunteer discretionary enforcement is great if enforcement is consistent, however I have witnessed myself several times inconsistent enforcement of this particular rule.


    I agree with Slyx and have complete faith in Ki-Ros ruling having zero personal benefit, after all he has only played one match according to his service record... which would be direct contradiction to his being an experienced veteran player in this S1914 game. In addition there is a history which I have witnessed that Ki-Ros rulings for account Pushing were over ruled by other Paid employees. So I am generally skeptical of Ki-Ros rulings, experience and judgement.

  • Being a veteran is a requirement for volunteers, for payed staff it has to be optional, or we'd never be able to fill open positions in Hamburg.

    I honestly have to question your statement of there being a history of his rulings being overturned, as the overturn would have had to pass by either me or another colleague, both of which I can not recall. I'm not gonna die on the hill of "we'd never make mistakes", as everyone ist just a human in the end, but ultimately, if a ruling turns out to be overthrown by multiple others having a different opinion, that just shows you how hard it is to set a single rule to fit all cases.

    Especially with account pushing, due to the dynamic of the game and human interaction it is nigh impossible to try and factor out individiual human judgement form cases, which is also not what we're trying to do.
    Think of actual civil court rulings. There is a reason why a judge makes the final call on the verdict instead of simply reading up the rulebook and doing whatever it says in there. It quite simply isn't this easy.

  • I honestly have to question your statement of there being a history of his rulings being overturned, as the overturn would have had to pass by either me or another colleague, both of which I can not recall. I'm not gonna die on the hill of "we'd never make mistakes", as everyone ist just a human in the end, but ultimately, if a ruling turns out to be overthrown by multiple others having a different opinion, that just shows you how hard it is to set a single rule to fit all cases.

    I prefer to private message you on this matter than to risk being banned from Forum for speaking negatively of Bytro, I already have 4 points against me for a post a year ago DrLepreachuan issued that ban... trust me , I was part of map in which one of my guys was banned, unbanned by Ki-Ros and later banned again by different Bytro Team member on an Account Pushing ruling (for unfair trades of resources / provinces within his own coalition). Never have gotten straight answer on this incident, anyhow prefer to pursue topic in private message as I have been down this road before and I will likely get banned for speaking here.

    Embrace your true nature , enjoy games and have fun!