​ Trade mech units. (non-abusable)

    Greetings mates I would like your feedback on how to promote this feature.

    Concept of use: you can trade only mech units, not infantry

    Useful for: creating peace agreements, demilitarization of a defeated enemy, vassalization, subsidizing an ally, loan unused equipment etc

    Anti-Abuse mechanics:
    1. traded unit gets 24 hours of 0 speed and 0 stats ( this is to prevent ROW abuse)
    2. A post is created in the Newspaper, to let others know what is going on ( informs for potential hidden allies and multi-account)
    3. Unit doesn't change position on the map it just changes owner.

    This mechanic can not be abused, if used from multi-accounts it would reveal them and nerf their abuse, Change my mind!


    PS: please vote it up with a comment, if you think it would upgrade the game experience.

  • FMD

    Approved the thread.

    You would get the same effect by trading them the resources needed to build the unit, and they would generally get it faster than 24 hours.


    I don't see the developers putting unit trades back into the code, especially since they would also have to code a 24 hour delay into unit movement, and 0 stats for 24 hours.

    Quote from Walrus_3d 1914

    You would get the same effect by trading them the resources needed to build the unit, and they would generally get it faster than 24 hours.

    That argument was either hastily formed or comes from a biased perspective.

    -Trading resources do not cover the needs of demilitarisation functionality, in which player A seeks to remove some military power from player B in mass and in an instance, in exchange for peace and other forms of co-operation.

    - But also resource trading will fail to deliver what instant trading units can do in the concept of helping an ally that immediately needs support in mass, bombers need 4-3 days, not 1, Also the amount of production is limited by factory number and levels.

    Quote from Walrus_3d 1914

    I don't see the developers putting unit trades back into the code, especially since they would also have to code a 24 hour delay into unit movement, and 0 stats due 24 hours.

    That's more interesting feedback, thanks.

    Why do you think they won't do it?
    Is it because of the developing cost?
    - they Already have the old code of trading armies
    - Already have the embark/disembark functionality that keeps an army stationary for an amount of time and changes stats
    - they only have to edit the old code a bit to allow only mech units, That's not costly to develop.

    Is it because of something else?

    They did change it with a reason, so I dont expect they change it back. There are so much changes in the game mechanics since, I dont think its an easy way back to code it with also a 24 delay at it.

    I t was a nice feature in the past, but I myself wouldnt like to have the trade option of mechanics back, because it will be abused, trust me

    Even if Bytro are able to accurately detect all cases of multi-accounting (thats a very big IF), it currently takes 3 days (sometimes longer) for them to process multi-accounting tickets. So if the freeze period is 1 day, multi-accounts will wreck havoc for 2+ days. Even if those players get banned eventually, the damage would have already been done and would be irreversible.

    Any sufficiently advanced tactic is indistinguishable from magic to the uninitiated.

    Quote from frisianqueen

    They did change it with a reason, so I dont expect they change it back.

    It was a nice feature in the past, but I myself wouldnt like to have the trade option of mechanics back, because it will be abused, trust me

    Thank you Frisian, you give me the chance to clarify something important

    You won't have the same old mechanic back...
    Trading mech units" seems the same as "trading armies" But there is a subtle difference that removes all the issues that the previous mechanic had.

    Right now multi-account abuse exists and they can use trade resources instead, to transfer resources to their main account.
    Let's say then, a multi-accounter tries to abuse trading mech units.

    Instead of transferring resources to his main account from day 1 as he used to do before.
    He starts to invest those resources in his 2nd country and starting to build workshops and factories to make units.

    Now what that means:
    - They have to defend a 2nd country,
    ( sidenote they will need to survive for 14-15 days until the first canon gets built),
    - Spend resources that their main account could use instead.
    - They will have to travel the unit to their main account borders,
    - They will also get it delayed by a whole day by default,
    - Other Players will notice the transfer, consider the 2 nations allies, and calculate their strategy accordingly
    - if trade mech units are done repeatedly his accounts will probably get reported too.

    In contrast with the current situation in which they use trade resources.
    - the main account gets to use the resources from day 1,
    (he can make workshops everywhere and spams Cars, instant return on using a multi-account)
    - no game time attention and resources get wasted on building up a defense for the 2nd account
    - No need for the multiaccount to border his main one
    - It is done in silence and next to impossible to get reported

    So Frisian what do you think now, which mechanic is a better option for multi-account abuse?

    Quote from ScaredyCat

    Even if Bytro are able to accurately detect all cases of multi-accounting (thats a very big IF), it currently takes 3 days (sometimes longer) for them to process multi-accounting tickets. So if the freeze period is 1 day, multi-accounts will wreck havoc for 2+ days. Even if those players get banned eventually, the damage would have already been done and would be irreversible.

    Hello ScaredyCat , thank you for the feedback

    As I analyzed in the previous post I am not relying on bytro wasting company resources spotting and banning them.
    I rely on the fact that, would be a very inefficient and difficult way to try to abuse multi accounts and a Very risky one.

    You can go read and tell me, which multi-account abuser will wreak more havoc, the one that uses the current game mechanics or the one that will use trade mech units?

    Essentially, those units were transfered to "mercenary" players, who fight for the client with those units in exchange for collaboration at other maps for them to win goldmarks easily. That's also a problem in alliance matches and a huge tool for the Wolfpacks, since they were able to transfer once and again those units 24/7 to protect them. That also meant the match was less strategic and more tactic, which is not the original purpose of this game. And, as you can read, I didn't even mention the multi-accounts issue.


    Finally, the mere fact you have to think about a lot of conditions for that feature to be viable enough, means the feature is non-viable at all. If something works, works in simple ways, not with lots and lots of pre-requirements.


    Greetings.


    P.D. Personally, I would like the mechs unit trades to come back for roleplay purposes, but the risk do not worth the gains: today, the game is better without that trade, same case as with the annonymous feature in the newspaper.

    Demonaire
    ES. EN & PT Game Operator
    Bytro Labs | Supremacy 1914


    b78//+

    All the things you need to play this game can be found here, here and here.

    Do you want to experience new ways to enjoy Supremacy 1914? Click here and here.

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    Quote from Demonaire

    Essentially, those units were transfered to "mercenary" players, who fight for the client with those units in exchange for collaboration at other maps for them to win goldmarks easily. That's also a problem and a huge tool for the Wolfpacks, since they were able to transfer once and again those units 24/7 to protect them.

    OH thank you Demonaire!
    just realized that" trade mech units" would not be abusable from Wolfpacks too!
    and if used from them it would reveal them and nerf their abuse!

    Right now Wolfpack abuse exists and they can use trade resources instead, to transfer resources to their collaborator.

    Let's say then, a Wolfpack tries to abuse trading mech units.

    Instead of transferring resources to their collaborator from day 1 as they used to do before.
    They start to invest those resources in their respective countries and start to build workshops and factories to make units.

    Now what that means:
    - They have to defend all their respective countries,
    ( sidenote they will need to survive for 14-15 days until the first canon gets built),
    - Spend resources that their collaborator could use instead.
    - They will have to travel the unit to their collaborator borders,
    - They will get delayed for a critical 24h before their units can be used for defending from their Collaborator,
    - Other Players will notice the transfer, consider their wolfpack a hidden Coalition, and calculate their strategy accordingly
    - if trade mech units are done repeatedly for account pushing their Wolfpack will probably get reported too.

    In contrast with the current situation in which they use trade resources.
    - the collaborator gets to use the resources from day 1,
    (he can make workshops everywhere and spams Cars, instant return from the Wolfpack hidden coalition)
    - no game time attention and resources get wasted on building up a defense for their supporting nations.
    - No need for the Wolfpack to border their collaborator.
    - Their Collaborator would have all the mech units available to defend his country without delay.
    - It is done in silence and next to impossible to get reported

    So Demonaire what do you think now, which mechanic is a better tool for Wolfpack abuse,
    the one that uses the current game mechanics or the one that will use trade mech units?

    The problem with multi account of wolfpacks is that when it occurs, the damage already is taken. Also if that player is reported, it takes some time to bann such a player, because the reports not always can be looked at right away. So no matter what, mechanics trade is too vulnerable for abuse. We had it in the past, and I dont want it back. And its not very easy to bring it back also. I think there are more important issues right now to look upon.

    I understand your worry about Multi accounts and wolfpacks and couldn't agree with you more, when they occur

    the damage is already done.

    They can from day 1 attack a neighbor, trade all their recourses, and leave their provinces empty for their main account to conquer.


    But this proposal is not about tackling multi-account issue. This proposal seeks to promote a functionality that would enable mech units trading While being a lot less abusable than the current mechanics.


    So I am asking you, please ,take a step back and compare it with the current mechanics of trade resources.

    which functionality would be the tool that would be used to inflict much greater and instant abuse, the current mechanics of trade resource or the trade mech units?

    A great explanation to ban trade resources while don't allow unit resources. Devs will be fascinated with that. ;)


    Also, Devs are absolutely not interested in making the newspaper an info resource. So, newspaper in the future will be less and less informative, in favour of espionage.

    Demonaire
    ES. EN & PT Game Operator
    Bytro Labs | Supremacy 1914


    b78//+

    All the things you need to play this game can be found here, here and here.

    Do you want to experience new ways to enjoy Supremacy 1914? Click here and here.

    Have you problems with the game? Send a ticket.


    @I Nikas If I understand it, you would like to get ridd of the trade of resources in favor of the trade of units. Well that would be a disaster for the fair players. What would the game be without the possibility of trading resources.

    And I think you dont understand me: in the past there was a possibility of trading units. They get rid of it, not without a reason. In that way 2 players in different time zones could play all day with the same units.

    And the trade resource all players can use all over the map. So its not all about abuse, but also about a functionality fair for all players. If you are short of resources and another player can help you with that, thats something I wouldnt want to lose.

    Quote from Demonaire

    A great explanation to ban trade resources while don't allow unit resources. Devs will be fascinated with that. ;)

    If that keeps the devs fascinated sure, It will make stakeholders mad though if it affects player base interest and profitability.

    It will also contradict what you told me before that the game is supposed to be about diplomatic interaction and strategy rather than tactics.

    Removing trade resources and trade mech would be basically the devs disabling the game part by part because they fail to solve an issue. ( As a dev myself, I would be replaced from my job if I was delivering such solutions to the clients)

    Thanks for commenting on my analysis though, and subtly agree that trade mech units is as acceptable as the already features in place,
    (don't know why the subtlety but I respect your reasons)

    If you have the time to show this analysis/proposal to the developers, would be much appreciated.
    I personally think that both features, trade resources and trade mech are acceptable and net positive to the game,
    They would create more interest and revenue than disappointment and loss, but if they chose to remove so be it.

    Quote from Demonaire

    Also, Devs are absolutely not interested in making the newspaper an info resource. So, newspaper in the future will be less and less informative, in favour of espionage.

    That's an interesting aspect, that Would buff the espionage section of the game,
    What would be this newly created free newspaper space used for though, an anti-cheat safety article would be more than welcome to cover a little of this space.

    Quote from frisianqueen

    @I Nikas If I understand it, you would like to get ridd of the trade of resources in favor of the trade of units.

    Hello Frisian , Not at all, I would love to have them both.
    My point was that as trade resources is an implemented and acceptable feature despite of how much it can be used from Multi account abusers. Then trade mech units a feature that can not be abused by multi-accounters has also to be an acceptable feature.

    I play the game since 2011 , I know the issues, that's why I proposed a refinished version of it,
    24-hour delay and restraining it to mech only solves all the issues basically.
    ( the 2 players in different time zones playing all day with the same units. is solved for exmple)
    (you can try to think of any of the old abuses you will see that have been solved or cheater would be better off using other tools instead )
    the newspaper article is extra anti-cheat protection.

    I had my fun with trading mechanic units, and if they put it in again, I would surely take advantage of it as I did in the past. And I sure like the ideas you have, but I dont think its something they will put back in the game. The game mechanics has changed that much, and it would be a crime to put it back in I think for the developers. If you think more people like it and want it back, I suggest you bring this subject to the official discord from Bytro. At that place you can make suggestions about the game and also other players can react.

    I think more players would like your idea, so give it a try


    Official discord: https://discord.gg/JRvh3eDYW2

    I would appreciate Petruz input on this unit trade topic, he was directly involved in the 'patch' or update which removed the unit trade option from s1914 game, perhaps he can elaborate on this removal this realistic aspect of warfare from s1914... another simultaneous connected this removal of units trades (used to be 10%) was that Bytro also disabled ability to trade resources , even among players in same coalition. The resource element of this removal was quickly reversed and we could again trade resources /silver.


    Personally I enjoyed the mercenary element and fighting of proxy wars, which also clearly adds sense of realism to the games tactics / strategy... recently I have experimented with mercenary espionage service with players as an alternative to fighting proxy wars, however it seems to only be viable in early stages of map, as soon as players can afford their own silver to purchase their own spies this avenue of mercenary play goes stagnate.


    The real reason unit trades were removed was because of an over powered exploit with planes and ability to trade planes to another player during attack which caused continuous attacking of a target, the exploit eliminated need to return to air field and there was never any refuel time back then. I believe it is possible with the new plane /combat mechanics that this units trade could be re-inserted into the game of s1914, however I doubt Bytro will pursue any such alterations which would complicate the new simplicity of the game> UNLESS... there was a way to that Bytro could make profit from the pursuit.

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