Push or not?

Quote from Walrus_3d 1914

On a related note, this happened in a Dominion map.

Player A contacts me, suggesting that he'll give me his remaining control points (we both had two) if I then join another Dominion map with him and give him the control points in the second map. I refuse. Two weeks later, Player B allows him to walk into the final control point (right of way, war, right of way), and they both fight me to prevent me taking any of his four points before the timer is up. I assume they collaborated on another Dominion map afterwards.

Pushing?

Pushing.

Quote from ScaredyCat

Interesting.. thanks for the discussion.

From what I see:

• I think we can all agree that in Walrus's case (in post #11), player A had clear intention to help player B right before quitting.
• But I think there is no evidence indicating that player A joined the game with the sole intention of helping Player B.

People tends to overlook the numeral 3 and the note of the Anti-Pushing Rule:

"3. Should players join a game with the intent to influence the outcome and aid Player X will be considered Account-Pushing

Note: contrary to the past, account pushing does not apply to a certain date of joining, and is defined as solely joining to aid another user not to play the game."

As you can see, numeral 3 DOES NOT demand "sole intention", meaning the pusher could have many other intentions at the match before deciding to do Pushing, also meaning that, as written in the note, Account-Pushing can happen any time, any moment during the match. It's possible to "punish" pushers and pushed even after the match is over.

Quote from ScaredyCat

If this constitute account pushing, does this then means that:

• 1) In future games, if my coalition-mates decides to quit halfway through the game (e.g., work commitement, health reasons, family members died) and send all his troops towards a competitor (who we may or may not be at war with), I am not supposed to capture his empty provinces?
• 2) (Variation of the #1) Does it matter if capturing of the empty provinces is delayed by 2 days till he turns AI? (and assuming the recruitment center is disabled for easy capture)
• 3) In future games, if I have to quit the game halfway for personal reasons, I am not supposed to help my coalition by giving away land, resources, and sending my troops to attack the competitors?

If the above scenarios are not considered pushing, what is the distinguishing characteristics from the scenario described by Walrus?

I don't disagree with the rules, I just want to better understand it so I can adhere to them.

EDIT: to clarify that I am referring to Walrus's scenario in post #11 (i only saw post #17 after I made this post)

Display More

1. That's right. You are not supposed to capture his empty provinces, nor your disadvantaged enemy's by means of the action.
2. Yes, in that particular case, it matters: that would also be Pushing.
3. Effectively. You are not supposed to help your coallition by giving away land, resources and sending your troops in a Kamikaze fashion to attack the competitors.

Greetings.

Quote from Walrus_3d 1914

Furry1

I think the fundamental difference between in-map assistance and account pushing is that "assistance" is between active players in the map, who intend to both stay active, to the benefit of both players. "Account pushing" occurs when one player intends to leave the map, and plans that departure with the still active players.

Receiving assistance in-game can be a result of good diplomacy, good strategy, or external relationships. Account pushing, to me, is solely based on factors external to the game.

"Leaving the map" is the usual thing, but not the only one. The case in the Dominion map you quoted is a good example: the pusher didn't leave the map but made efforts to interfere against you and favored another player to win the match, despite the fact he won't get any prize in that map.

Summarizing: all players must play with the goal of winning the match in their minds. We can call this "Self-interest". Since the precise moment a player abandon his/her "Self-interest", he/she has "mens rea" for Pushing.

Again, a lot of it is subject to interpretation by a GO because they have the capability to be able to see the HISTORY.

Some people make it easy. They join a map and become a farm for another player. Giving their resources on a daily or weekly basis in order to allow one player to expand easily. Other situations will have a player join a map, clear out his or her land and allow a player to take over and expand fast and easily. These can be spotted by blind men and if you see this kind of activity in a round, report it immediately so it can be investigated and dealt with by a GO. There are others that are not so easy to catch but again, GOs have tools to deal with things in investigations to confirm if any wrongdoing is going on.

There are other "tells" on players who are up to no good but I'll keep those quiet right now so I don't give anyone ideas or ammo to work out how to come up with some kind of strategy to avoid those "tells".

There should be a clear definition on rules such as Account pushing, vague rule descriptions which are enforced based only on a volunteer's Judgement call is a flawed rule from the start...

Nothing new in S1914 and I am sure it is same priority as replacing the 'daily spin'

Quote from Hastings TNT

There should be a clear definition on rules such as Account pushing, vague rule descriptions which are enforced based only on a volunteer's Judgement call is a flawed rule from the start...

Nothing new in S1914 and I am sure it is same priority as replacing the 'daily spin'

this is false, we have very clear guidelines on how account pushing is called.

if you see a volounteer's judgement being "flawed" dont hesitate to report it to me and i will take necessary action to correct a mistake - if there is any.

Maybe the rules/definitions are clear to the GOs, but before this recent discussion, it certainly was not clear for me. I speculate that it is also unclear for many players...

So I feel that it would be beneficial to revise the wording of the rules on pushing to make it clearer and more concrete.

the point of this thread has been answered. send a support request for further inquiries if you still have any.

we are not just going to kick someone from a game. there has to be more then just the idea a player might be a farm or so.

like UpOneLevel said there are rather specific rules about it that are followed and checked by others.

The demeaning and degrading way of putting we are just voluntiers is just that. nothing more nothing less.

if you had any idea how much time some spend on helping honoust players that get into trouble by cheating users you might have a bit more respect.

The main thing in discussions like is however seems to be total disrespect towards the mods and gos that actualy keep this game playable for all.

such a shame