New Look discussion

Quote from [ACC] Bobokil

even other comment put arty is import bullshit! since she heavy tank only kick see the arty after check army

Well then that is a bug as we were told that was the plan. But you might be mistaking the 2 symbols right now all mechanical units are combined in a tank like symbol however the main symbol (the 3D one) should show arty from the moment arty is included. And yes we have already suggested putting all mechanical units under a tank symbol isn't the way to go. But that's why we and also you should give feedback so stuff change.

Quote from Demonaire

1) If you had played RISK and then you see the "Legacy" board, you can see the similarities: very simple map, both land and sea,

2) and "napoleonic" units (infantry, cavalry and artillery) with only the improvements required (tanks, planes, ships, etc.) Even designs we related in Legacy with WWI could show as "napoleonic" and there will be no difference (newspaper, diplomacy, and so on)

3) The TGW map show us 3D units truly related with WWI (infantry with drill uniforms and rifles, 21 cm Mörser 16, Mark IV, Renault FT, Dreadnought, etc ) plus the barbed wire to signal the enemy border-No man's land kind of.

Of course, "TGW" map still needs more work (this font, for example, is too modern for this game), but, comparatively, it's certain the new map is more loyal to a WWI style than Legacy.

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Can you not do nested quotes on this form to allow addressing individual points?

1) I personally don't see how 2D is Napoleonic and 3D is WWI? NGA Planets is set in space and that's very simple 2D maps. Still feels futuristic.

2) But the units haven't changed in the new version? So I don't see the difference. Still Infantry, Cavalry, Artillery plus Tanks, Planes and Ships.

3) They do look nice but like CoW they make game play more difficult.

That said I can totally see the need to be able to get onto mobile and steam platforms to drive the product forwards.

I think it's great that the MODS and Staff have so much belief in the new game but personally I think it'll end up very similar to CoW.

Quote from Wiltshire Yeoman

Can you not do nested quotes on this form to allow addressing individual points?

1) I personally don't see how 2D is Napoleonic and 3D is WWI? NGA Planets is set in space and that's very simple 2D maps. Still feels futuristic.

2) But the units haven't changed in the new version? So I don't see the difference. Still Infantry, Cavalry, Artillery plus Tanks, Planes and Ships.

3) They do look nice but like CoW they make game play more difficult.

That said I can totally see the need to be able to get onto mobile and steam platforms to drive the product forwards.

I think it's great that the MODS and Staff have so much belief in the new game but personally I think it'll end up very similar to CoW.

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You have your way of quoting, I have mine.

I don't know NGA Planets, but if that game would go under a similar revamp, it would be aesthetically better a 3D rockets than 2D ones. And since this discussion is clearly aesthetic, then it's pretty obvious the units' changes are pantagruellian and sums up to a big WWI environment.

I don't know CoW either, but here I assume (considering the recurrent comments about that) Bytro wants to uniform their games under a same design. Of course, that policy have pros and cons but, IMHO, as far as they wants to improve the game in a way where there is a WWI feeling, that should be enough.

As I said, nobody is telling you TGW is easier for the players to use than Legacy, but, from visuals, the new map is already an great improvement against the old one.

Greetings.

I'll just jump in again. RL is all in 3D so going 3D is "realistic" The revamp also has different reasons. THe new renderer should eventually have better mobile capabilities This is undeniable the main reason for the move. Bytro has looked at CoW which is more succesfull in attracting new users. Which is partially caused to it's modern game look and it's mobile support.

Where in the past a mobile version was unthinkable, Is the mobile version now in reach at the end of 2019 both Android and IOS should be supported.

Supremacy is an old game with wonderfull legacy users and communities. The trick now is to meet one another somewhere halfway. Get a new version that is functional for the legacy users. And nice and modern looking to attract new people in. As I'm fairly sure we can all say more users would Always be a good idea.

Supremacy is for the devs very difficult to handle, it's the strange duck in their games. It also stagnates but doesn't really drop in amount of users. Because of this nice amount of loyal legacy customers. However everybody here eventually will face reasons to stop S1914. So on the long run S1914 how it was was bleeding to death slowly. New blood needs to be added, new users need to be attracted rather sooner then later. And that means we the loyal legacy users will have to get used to the revamp. But don't get me wrong, if bytro wants this to be a succes they will also have to reach their hand and implement/change features that in legacy work better then in the revamped version. SO that in 2.5 months from now we can all sit here and say "Yes this revamped mode looks good, doesn't lag, and gives me all the information in a single look of an eye, yes the buttons are on a different location but I'll learn where they are".

And as long as not a majority part of the legacy users have that opinion, they should keep legacy around and work to improve the issues they face. As S1914 is a succesfull game and money maker for bytro based on it's loyal users.

As i understood, this is the place to give our opinion about the new look.

I already gave my opinion in other thread, but i posted it in a wrong channel. I repost it here, hoping some people will agree with me about what could be better.

1 ) It was already said many time, but we should be able to distinguish in a quick look how many infantery and arty are composing an army without having to click on it.

2 ) the flag next to an army is way to big, and it can easily be confused with other flag when they are many army in a close place. Specially when you zoom out the map.

3 ) The units representing the army on the map are too big also. It may be because i'm still not used to the new look. But the problem is the same as the flag's problem. Whenever 2 armies (or more) are close, it becomes a bit confusing to say clearly who is who. May be is there some improvement to do about the "stick" that connect the units to the road. Some where crossing (doing a x ) without apparent reason. (link)

4 ) On the opposit, the planes are not visible enough. I almost missed a whole crew of bombers yesterday because it was represented with a single little bomber. With the old look, you can spot bombers from further (if they are attacking a place you can see, you will be able to spot the bombers at the moment they leave their airport, whenever this airport is in your visual range or not). This is no longer possible with the new look, and you will spot them at the moment they enter your visual range. Such threat as bombers should take your attention more easily. May be by enlarging them a little and puting one more bombers on the map each 5 bombers ? By bombers, i mean bombers and fighters both.

5 ) Last one : the picture showing the province's ressource is placed next to the name of the province when this province is the capital. It can be easily confused with other ressource's picture. (link)
May be removing the picture next to the capital's name could be the solution, placing the ressource's picture next to the city, capital or not.

Btw : i like how water looks (but still didn't fight in the sea with the new look), the colour are more pleasant and relaxing, and the game goes 5x time faster on my cp with the new look Also, i find the information about condition, cost, time, ... are still easy to find and more complete than before.

English is not my mother langage, sorry if they are mistake.

Quote from NarmerTheLion

Well then that is a bug as we were told that was the plan. But you might be mistaking the 2 symbols right now all mechanical units are combined in a tank like symbol however the main symbol (the 3D one) should show arty from the moment arty is included. And yes we have already suggested putting all mechanical units under a tank symbol isn't the way to go. But that's why we and also you should give feedback so stuff change.

I test it today It show Arty what 100 arty and 1 Heavy tank and yes I know all symbols were like a tank. Before I put my comment I test it put a solo Heavy tank and then add 100 arty to army and still had same symbol like what only 1 Heavy tank. Know that I try it today it show arty first!

i can't see anything, this is really ugly can't play like that ! i really hope you dev will fix this fastly because you won't just loose old player with that revamp but you won't get any new ! my eyes are bleeding right now y.y i did force myself to play on revamp and not on legacy, but i can't do it anymore, this actual version is reaaaally bad.
Look at this ? Where are the units ? i know stick view will help me but i don't want to switch stick every time i cannot understand what is right in front of me.
Honestly, you need a revamp of this revamp asap ! if you want players to get used to the new look, you can't make them play on a shity map like this, sorry for that words but ... it is really bad work you did, for now at least. You didn't release a beta but an alpha

look

why are the units so big ? it is so unclear ! it is not an artistic game about WWI, it is A STRATEGY GAME. In a strategy game, what should come first ? a good vision of the map and the capacity to understand fastly the state of a game, or is this the 3D units moving around the map ? NO ONE cares about 3D units, every one care 10x more about the strategic side. If you wan't good pic of WWI, they are already plenty of game. Don't get wrong in the way you are changing this game.

Sorry for hard word, i felt i had to say it honesly. It is not like it need some minor fix. The revamp need HUGE fix to be accepted by your community.

Have a nice day

Quote from Mmarkh

Sorry for hard word, i felt i had to say it honesly. It is not like it need some minor fix. The revamp need HUGE fix to be accepted by your community.

We are luckily aware of this, (I'm volunteer so not really a representative) The revamp is inspired by the succes of CoW but needs some fixes and also fixes that were non existing for CoW as CoW does have some stuff that are different to Supremacy luckily there are updates rolling out int he comming months to make the new mode fully functional

Quote from NarmerTheLion

The revamp is inspired by the succes of CoW but needs some fixes and also fixes that were non existing for CoW as CoW does have some stuff that are different to Supremacy

you can not make a total renovation of a game based on the success of another similar and set in a different era. You can not launch a new version without having tried all its features for months, many months in this case, since the changes are profound. This version was launched thinking only of the advertising effect but it was not thought of the controversy that would be generated by having a loyal community for so long and fully adapted to the previous version.

Quote from NarmerTheLion

We are luckily aware of this, (I'm volunteer so not really a representative) The revamp is inspired by the succes of CoW but needs some fixes and also fixes that were non existing for CoW as CoW does have some stuff that are different to Supremacy luckily there are updates rolling out int he comming months to make the new mode fully functional

Is that game really a success? There seem to be 500,000 more register users yes but a much much larger percentage seem to be inactive. I last week tried to play it again and am now a private have joined but not finish 2 games. I'm already in the top 300K players. As a Lieutenant you'd be in the top 100 players! Not so on here.

None of the games on the home page are full. Even the one at 300+ days. My game after a couple of days only has 5 active players the highest ranked of whom is a Sergeant.

CoW is a poor game with apparently few active players.

Also as to the point about the real world be 3D so 3D is more realistic. Firstly if we wanted realistic graphics we'd be playing Call of Duty or some such. Secondly this game is about Strategy if you want a realistic depiction of what staff officers see when dictating strategy then they are actually staring at maps and reading incoming reports. That was true in 1914 and it was true as recently as 2003 in Iraq, for me at least.

Quote from Wiltshire Yeoman

Is that game really a success? There seem to be 500,000 more register users yes but a much much larger percentage seem to be inactive. I last week tried to play it again and am now a private have joined but not finish 2 games. I'm already in the top 300K players. As a Lieutenant you'd be in the top 100 players! Not so on here.

I don't think it's called a success only for the users registered, which taking in count the years in active is something noticeable too, but also because of the amount the money users spend in the game.

Quote from Wiltshire Yeoman

None of the games on the home page are full. Even the one at 300+ days. My game after a couple of days only has 5 active players the highest ranked of whom is a Sergeant

30 players and less are indeed pretty empty.

You should try 100 and 500 players to get some challenge with higher ranked

edit : the event that take places every month / 2month are good challenges too

Quote from Wiltshire Yeoman

300+ days

you can only join games before day 14 so very old games tend to never fill again.

A succes is indeed mainly capitalistically decided, the main numbers that they are to release publically is revenue. (are posted in bytro's investors departement) But also active user amount CoW does better althought those numbers are not publically posted. And Mobile and Steam attracted more users maybe a small amount actually sticks. but Supremacy in contrary does not attract new users due to it's old look and mobile incompatibility.

Quote from Wiltshire Yeoman

Is that game really a success? There seem to be 500,000 more register users yes but a much much larger percentage seem to be inactive. I last week tried to play it again and am now a private have joined but not finish 2 games. I'm already in the top 300K players. As a Lieutenant you'd be in the top 100 players! Not so on here.

None of the games on the home page are full. Even the one at 300+ days. My game after a couple of days only has 5 active players the highest ranked of whom is a Sergeant.

CoW is a poor game with apparently few active players.

Also as to the point about the real world be 3D so 3D is more realistic. Firstly if we wanted realistic graphics we'd be playing Call of Duty or some such. Secondly this game is about Strategy if you want a realistic depiction of what staff officers see when dictating strategy then they are actually staring at maps and reading incoming reports. That was true in 1914 and it was true as recently as 2003 in Iraq, for me at least.

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Unfortunately, wars aren't fought in staff officers' posts, but on terrain. There is where it counts.

And that returns back to my statement about Legacy being just a upgraded RISK board, not a well-conceived WWI representation. Legacy is good today by playability, because in other aspects, it was well outdated.

I have to agree with Wiltshire Yeoman on this. I too have tried out CoW on 3 occasions and each time lasted not more than a few minutes and quickly returned to Supremacy. It's just individual taste regarding the type of game we want to play and as I think is becoming quite clear Supremacy players are not CoW players.

I can understand the need to modernize the look (I'm not a fame but understand many will be) I get you want to get on the mobile platform and also steam but do we really need a CoW clone? If we all wanted to play CoW then that game would be full and Supremacy would be empty. When I start a new game now no matter which map it is full in a few hours, from what I am reading that is not so with CoW.

But if your justification for this change is solely based on "the success of CoW" then I can't help but feel once again my days of enjoying the game are numbered. I have not yet had a chance to check the new look after today's patch however I am finding it worrying the talk of "let's make it more like CoW" that I am hearing. That will be a huge disappointment to all of us who have tried CoW and decided it is not for us.

Quote from Rotekatze

I too have tried out CoW on 3 occasions and each time lasted not more than a few minutes and quickly returned to Supremacy

Same, The task of the developers is to combine both worlds as stated before. Supremacy the old format doesnot attract new users. Seems young people want all those upgrades. The first thing I said internally when they announced the revamp was "DOn't make it to much as CoW there is a reason Sup players never stuck to CoW". And that should still not be the goal.Supremacy just needs to look shiny and work on mobile to attract new users. Meanwhile the mechanics need to keep being functional and clean to keep the supremacy users around.

But in bytro's defence it is logical to look at CoW which attracts new users, and then to Sup that is stagnated on new users. And bytro did take a look what the new CoW users used and must have decided that a lot of them played largely mobile. And looking at the youth, I can think that is true younger people use mobile more then laptop except when playing really heavy games, rarely RT

Quote from Demonaire

Unfortunately, wars aren't fought in staff officers' posts, but on terrain. There is where it counts.

I know that too. Very very well. But this is a game mate. If you want to play a game that realistically depicts war from the point of view of an individual soldier or platoon then play ARMA.

This game new or legacy will NEVER recreate that. Its a strategy game hence my comments about the people who make strategic decisions in real wars. If YOU want this game to be realistic then it should surely mimic that.

I do take on Narmers point that if RoW is making more money because of Steam and Mobile then the owners are obliged to maximise their profits and I'm sure there's no room for dead ducks if that's what this is/was.

Quote from Wiltshire Yeoman

I'm sure there's no room for dead ducks if that's what this is/was

Supremacy was/is not really a dead duck. The absolute figures show a slow decline of user base. Supremacy has this loyal base Where many people who expressed their opinion here belong to. The decision was made to be before we'd be a dead duck. Slow decline is still decline. Bytro is trying to revive it before it reaches the point of no return.As a game this old needs its loyal base to attract new users too. Activity makes activity. If you have nice alliance chats, battles, ...you are more likely to stick around then when you end up on a 31player map with only 3 users on. That is also why I keep stating that it takes both worlds to be satisfied in order for this to be a succes. This also means we need the feedback andbytro needs to listen to the feedback. It is a bumpy road ahead but I'm certain we'll make it. But sadly we will not all make it I'm aware some will leave, but hopefully the succesformula will catch on and our user base will grow so that we can have more active games.

[continuation]

The update a few days ago is already much better than before. It is now easier to understand who is where . But there are still some probleme with the "with what". I hope they are working on it. "1 arty and 50 tanks" is still the same as "50artys with 1 tank", even if it makes two totally different groups. You also changed the ressource's picture's position next to a city, wich prevent bug as we had before well done. The colour also are now better and more accurate with the stick.

Now that I'm pretty used to the new look, I would like to precise some point that -imho- still need to be fixed.

1) The size of the range, no matters what kind of ranged unit it is. Look at the arty for exemple : when you order them to attack, the arty's range visual is a little further than it should ! The legacy version have the advantage of precision, and every good player know that precision can make you win a battle, so a map.
We can't play with such imprecision. It is REALLY important that you fix the exact range on the exact location of an army/city, or the last precision tool we will have will be the timer
My cp has got difficulty to post picture here, so i give you 2 links to understand what I'm talking about.
new and legacy

2) The border between 2 land are a bit too large. Again, it is a problem of precision. Some player use that border to trick the enemy, as the border point has some mechanics you can use. But to do so, you need to see properly and exactly where the border is. Maybe the solution can be found in the legacy version : with a transparent coloured border and a small black line (size of a tick) doing the 'real' border.

3) Factories and airport need better visibility on the map, but still on a discreet way. Maybe could you make the smoke a little bigger, or more white ?

4) We can't know anymore if other player's units are going to war or are just walking.
This picture to understand my thought.
Look at the 28 with cavalry. I dont have a screen for the same situation seen from the legacy version. But i can assure you I could see the war lightning on the legacy version. With the new look, i can't know if those units are going to war or not before they reach their destination.

Thank you for reading and keep doing the good job. The last update really was a good update, but is still not sufficient for now

There are still serious bug when you change your flag or profil's picture ... On revamp version the game just choose a random pic at your place litteraly trolling you.
I just accused some random guy to steal my flag and my profil's picture but when i switched to legacy i realised it was just a huge bug placing random pic in the revamp. And no chances, those pic were mine. Flag and profil's picture are still working normally on the legacy but doesn't correspond when you switch to revamp.

new look (those are my usual flag and profil pic) and legacy

i apologize to that poor guy ofc
but i don't remember having read something about that bug