[S1914] Legacy-Removal Feedback Thread

  • An option to hide the big unit images on the map is already planned, I expect it in the near future (thanks for your patience on that one!). The labels will also try to point to the exact position of the unit then and not just float in the air. Unless many are in the same area and overlap, in that case labels are spread out for readability and the line connects them to the actual position.

    EDIT:

    Better listed realistic suggestions:


    1- Add a way, or just plain out, make the numbers for units bigger on the map, they are a tad smaller than on the Legacy Mode and they are just a bit hard to read easily, so having it bigger, or the option to make it bigger would be huge.


    2-The big units (or 3d models) thing has already been commented on.


    3- Make unit stacks again. Like on legacy, now you only see the 3d sprite of the "most important unit" (I have no idea how its selected), I think it would be better to have like on legacy where you just had stacks of the units with their respective amounts. Right now its not so far from it but its all lumped up in a white box and again, hard to see what is what and their amounts, I think to have them a bit more separated or discernible would also help a lot.


    4- Bring back the old shades for the borders, it just looked better and again, helped the "reading" of the map, or at least make it an option, im sure its not easy but as I say, I think its one of the biggest differences, its a subtle one, but it has big impact. (colour of the country is deepened at the border)


    5- I have no issue with the new 3D models (although I prefered the old ones) of buildings, but they are just way to tiny and hidden, railroads, factories and ports are much less visible, which makes the game much much less rewarding, which also affects engaging playerbase because well, what game doesnt want to be rewarding right? So if 3D sprites are staying just make them bigger and more noticeable. Most crucially those 3: ports, factories and railroads. Forts could also be more visible, or again, at least a bit bigger, same goes for the flames (or smoke) that comes out of a region that is low on morale. Everything around this aspect is just too small and seems like a minor detail on the map when in reality they are a huge deal.


    6- (This is more of a bonus) I know its probably never coming back but another thing that not only made the game more rewarding but also easier to manage was the ability to go into provinces (when you clicked on them and you got that square miniature of it and you could manage buildings from there). I have met a few players that liked the new UI more but still wish they had that tiny little miniature province, although im guessing its hard to implement into the new UI.


    7- Another huge impact on visibility, make roads more visible, it seems to be a trend with this new UI that things are more subtle and less visible. I get it looks smoother but really impacts gameplay. Roads need to be more visible, maybe a deeper colour or just thicker? Please make them more visible.


    I think if those 6-7 things are improved upon, its a MASSIVE leap foward. Those are the key points I could find right now, if I come up with more I will post but I doubt they will ever make it into the game, but here is to hoping.

  • Who are my 6 units fighting against?

    i think i can see a foot under the horse ...

    9z5g.png


    I move the cursor a little ...


    gttd.png

    a unit appears!!


    magical? no, it's just your rotten interface!! give us back the legacy mode!!

  • An option to hide the big unit images on the map is already planned, I expect it in the near future (thanks for your patience on that one!). The labels will also try to point to the exact position of the unit then and not just float in the air. Unless many are in the same area and overlap, in that case labels are spread out for readability and the line connects them to the actual position.


    Excuse the saltiness but oh, like, exactly the way that it worked very well for ten years then before it was changed? Revolutionary.


    No seriously, obviously that would be a good thing.

    I mean look at them screenshots above there. If anyone, including a develper, ever actually looked at a playtest like that and said "Yup, I see no problems with this", you deserve none of your success.


    By the way, forcing you to zoom out or enter several menues to see whether someone is AI or not instead of just selecting any province of his and being able to tell immediately - do I have to point out that this is a loss of readability or isn't that kinda obvious? How do these kinds of decisions happen?

    Oh yes and please, don't show me the exact amount I have of a resource unless I hover over it. Why would I care about that information? I can do with some extra exercise to my mouse hand with all the extra steps across the entire UI.

  • Let it go guys. I have too. Finishing my saves and thats goodbye for me. We gave the same feedback over and over again over the years. We said everything that was wrong whith the new UI and no one fixed it. This game is no longer for us, and the new comunity that grew playing this UI doesnt mind it since they never played legacy. They dont know that they are missing out and that was the plan all the time.


    Time to move on. If anyone know similar games, try those.

  • If anyone know similar games, try those.

    Well at least it looks like every single other strategy game on the Play Store now so at least that fix should be laughably easy to get elsewhere. The high-efficiency UI used to set it apart, but this was abolished for marketing reasons.


    If there was a game as good as this one, that's where I'd be. But I haven't seen one in ten years. This whole situation would be much less frustrating if that was the case.

  • Well at least it looks like every single other strategy game on the Play Store now so at least that fix should be laughably easy to get elsewhere. The high-efficiency UI used to set it apart, but this was abolished for marketing reasons.


    If there was a game as good as this one, that's where I'd be. But I haven't seen one in ten years. This whole situation would be much less frustrating if that was the case.

    Not only that but as they quoted, most players use regular UI instead of Legacy UI, well because vast majority of players DONT EVEN HAVE THE OPTION TO USE LEGACY MODE. They are selling themselves the lie that the new UI is better, its pure garbage and the vast VAST majority of players would opt for the Legacy UI were they given the chance to even try it.


    At least they are trying to improve it but they should just cut their losses and grant everyone access to Legacy Mode and truly see how many players will prefer it over time. They have fallen trap to their own fallacy.


    New UI has been around for a couple years now, its utter garbage and for some reason has WAY TO MANY BUGS, which is ironic since it should be the upgrade from "the old one", please, plus now I have to open more than 1 supremacy tab to view 2 games instead of being able to mouse-wheel click one so it opens on another tab, please Bytro PLEASE, GET A GRIP.


    I hope they actually listen to the community when it comes to the changes that should be made to the UI, but given they ignored all the previous years of feedback just to wrongfully push the garbage they created cause they dont know when to admit defeat I wouldn't count on it.


    People didn't just "prefer" the new UI, you didnt give them an option, you forced this garbage on everyone and now you said very few people used Legacy, THATS BECAUSE FEW PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO IT.


    Their justification for the new UI is laughably bad, it makes no sense, they wanted to upgrade graphics which I understand, but if its wrong you have to go back to the drawing board. Outright making Supremacy 1914 into another one of those posh ugly looking strategy multiplayer games that is pure trash and have they ads plastered everywhere. My god I think I can ever vent enough how ridiculous the whole situation is, its borderline infuriating.

  • They have fallen trap to their own fallacy.

    Very well put. I have tried to make that point before, recently in the German discussion on this. It seems one of the main arguments for the new UI being a success is the numbers that were created by the company themselves. New players who joined were never really presented with the incentive to say "Hey this is cumbersome, I want the other method more". Now they're using the fact that new players don't say that as evidence that the new UI is popular among them. It's looking very fallacious indeed.

    Let me stress again that a new UI was never a bad idea in itself. But it was not designed by people who know what was important to players in the old UI. It was designed by people who went with what looked most like the competition on the mobile gaming market and then pushed out half-heartedly into a state in which it is apparently impossible to make meaningful improvements to it anymore. Although I may eat those words if there is indeed an update soon that makes it possible to change the unit icons, I imagine that might be quite meaningful afterall. We'll see.

  • Not only that but as they quoted, most players use regular UI instead of Legacy UI, well because vast majority of players DONT EVEN HAVE THE OPTION TO USE LEGACY MODE. They are selling themselves the lie that the new UI is better, its pure garbage and the vast VAST majority of players would opt for the Legacy UI were they given the chance to even try it.

    Well you have to understand that when I say "users prefer legacy" I do not mean that users were presented a choice, I know very well that we restricted access to Legacy. Still it's not a lie. It was proven by quantifiable numbers. And with that I mean data from hundreds of thousands of users, such as retention, activity, revenue, all the major stuff most companies look at when making decisions. Which are much more objective than the subjective opinions in this thread. We compared those numbers to after the new Clients were made the default with numbers when Legacy was the default. The new clients performed better in every aspect (all numbers were better), which allowed us to grow the game since the Legacy days significantly, because we could attract more players and retain them longer. The amount of players and the amount of income is multiple times higher compared to the level it was back in the Legacy days. You can say "the market has spoken" to that if you want.


    At least they are trying to improve it but they should just cut their losses and grant everyone access to Legacy Mode and truly see how many players will prefer it over time. They have fallen trap to their own fallacy.

    We are doing exactly that. Cutting our losses by shutting down Legacy.

    they dont know when to admit defeat

    Hmmm so could this apply to you as well? Beause I have already said there is absolutely no chance that Legacy will return. It already got deleted from the codebase. I think you should put the energy into suggesting specific improvements for the new client.

    The defeat for us is that we cannot retain all Legacy players in the new clients. This is unfortunate and as I said earlier I am sorry for everyone who feels they have to quit now. I really do! But it won't change our decision as we have to think about the bigger picture. We unfortunately cannot please everyone, we will try to invest our resources in a way that it serves the big majority of the current playerbase the best. And that means not splitting time and money into maintaining multiple clients, but spending this on improving just 1 client for everyone.

    Outright making Supremacy 1914 into another one of those posh ugly looking strategy multiplayer games that is pure trash and have they ads plastered everywhere.

    To my knowledge there is no other online game from competitors (not made by Bytro or Dorado) that has exactly the same gameplay of S1914. So even with the new interface the unique selling point of S1914 still remains the unique gameplay that no other successful online game was able to copy yet.

  • Its a fact a lot of new players would prefer to play legacy mode. Real life example. My friend seen me playing legacy mode, asked what game it is, he did want to try it also. He did not like new mode and even did not finish 1 game, cos he wanted same look as mine was, legacy mode.

    This type of games play a lot of adults and they prefer simple, understandable look.

  • I think you should put the energy into suggesting specific improvements for the new client.

    I did, check my previous response, still I dont think there is coming back from the damage. As I said in other posts im sure Bytro did this with good intentions, they wanted a new flashy UI, of course this benefitted them but they also did it for the players so they wouldnt have to use some old UI, but things are not working, to sum up several posts it boils down to

    -game is harder to read

    -game is less rewarding

    -game is buggy, very buggy


    I quoted below by previous post in which I list key points that I think would make a massive difference.

  • We compared those numbers to after the new Clients were made the default with numbers when Legacy was the default.


    And you're comparing two spans of time that differ in no other way whatsoever, only the clients that were available? There wasn't like, I don't know, a global pandemic? A much larger marketing push on the company's part? Apparently not then, okay.

    I think you should put the energy into suggesting specific improvements for the new client.

    We put plenty of energy into that over the past few years and might have as well spent it screaming at a brick wall. This is fact and your ignoring of it doesn't make it less so. The community gave a very large amount of very specific, constructive, actionable feedback back when there was still the possibility to compare the two UIs directly. Please stop asking for more of it and get your colleagues in Hamburg to sit down and actually look at some of it. Or maybe bring someone in who actually plays the game to teach you how it works.


    So even with the new interface the unique selling point of S1914 still remains the unique gameplay that no other successful online game was able to copy yet.


    "But we decided to go ahead and hide that fact behind the most generic interface we could possibly duct-tape together, because being openly unique is for people with ambitions.".


    And again, that's the mootest of all moot points. A "different" UI does not need to get rid of the features that nobody disliked and that most found useful. It does not have to look like it was patched together in half a shift and then left as is because the boss figured that's about enough of the resources spent on that community now. It could have been held to the standard that Legacy set by your company during the creation of it. Then it wouldn't have been left up to the players to tell you where it falls short after you roll it out, which, at least so far has left the impression that in doing that it was made unfixable, too. Since the core issues the community has with it have been on the table since the first beta and they remain on the table until this very day. This really only leaves two conclusions: The points that seem undefendable to most people (unit sprites are just one large visual glitch. Freezy can refer to my Screenshots in the German thread, or any other thread on the goddamn design in the last four years for that matter. If you think it's a matter of taste as to whether or not you enjoy having a dozen sprites stubbornly displayed in the same location as one big garbled, indistinguishable mess of pixels, you are out of your mind) are actually intentional because there can't be anything good in the world or there was not and so far never has been enough motivation (or proficiency) to fix them.

  • An option to hide the big unit images on the map is already planned, I expect it in the near future (thanks for your patience on that one!)...


    Excuse me, but I'm not sure

    what your understanding of "near future" is


    I suppose:

    After planing

    it is programmed

    then tested

    and finally implemented in the game operation.


    So that we can plan a bit:


    SINCE WHEN do you PLAN to change the big unit images?


    After the feedback from 2018/2019?

    or

    After the feedback from 2021?

    or

    After the feedback of 2022?

  • And you're comparing two spans of time that differ in no other way whatsoever, only the clients that were available? There wasn't like, I don't know, a global pandemic? A much larger marketing push on the company's part? Apparently not then, okay.

    Stuff like this has been accounted for of course, and we looked at many more things. We also saw the better numbers much earlier, before the pandemic, after all the new client is 3-4 years old now. I only gave you the top level reasoning. We have professional marketing people and analysists who's career it is to analyse such data and derive the right decisions from that. So you don't need to worry about it :)


    I also feel like that this discussion is turning in circles now. This will therefore be my last post in this discussion, as I said everything I wanted to say in this thread. You can still continue to post feedback of course, we still read everything and see what we can apply to the game in the future.


    To reiterate the 2 main points a final time:

    - The old client is not coming back. There are many reasons for it which were explained earlier.

    - We are continuing to improve the new client and the game overall. Specific feedback is always helpful for that. Improved usability features like the view option I mentioned are in the works.


    Thanks, and hopefully you will start to enjoy the game again over time.

  • - We are continuing to improve the new client and the game overall. Specific feedback is always helpful for that. Improved usability features like the view option I mentioned are in the works.

    And I will still not give you Brownie points for having these "in the works" four years after they have been asked for. Either your staff was not able to do it for four years or your superiors did not care about having it done for four years. Quit selling this as an example of how much you're improving the client and how much feedback you've consulted to do it. That is disrespectful to the many players and paying customers of yours who care so deeply about this game that they gave that feedback again and again over the years, only to see next to none of it ever be considered, recieve not even any recognition from the developers for it, and then still continue to be asked to "finally" get around and give some feedback if you want the new client to improve.

    We did this in the good faith that you cared about our feedback in achieving what you consider the best product you could provide for business or marketing reasons or whatever. We did this because we thought the company cared about what we had to say and that it shared the same love and care for the game that we have. Now four years later something that we unanimously called a massive concern immediately back when this client first rolled out is "in the works".


    If it was only the playability, due to not one single person in the development team knowing how this thing is actually played, it would be one thing. Almost understandable. But on top of it, the client was released with horrid, obvious errors in visual display that immediately become obvious to even the most casual of observers.

    seems-absolutely-fine.png


    This is not a matter of taste. It is just silly to publish something like that as a for-profit company. It's emberrasing. It is not an improvement on anything. It's a glaring issue. Want me to go on? Because you stopped replying to the German thread at all, so not sure whether anyone relevant saw this. In four years I've never been sure that anyone who mattered saw my feedback, that's how valuable it seems to be.


    bullshit.png


    You wanna make me believe that the new players love this? They think this looks superb? As good as it could ever look? I'm just the one with the old-fashioned taste for visuals that make congruent sense?


    You are also going to have me believe that nobody during the initial design process four years ago caught this stuff? You must have actively decided to put that on the brand's portfolio. This is what a Bytro game should look, glitchy and half-assed? Why hasn't it long been fixed if that were not the case, like, super long? Was it done this poorly on purpose because that's what the competition on the App Stores looks like, too?


    Conversations have a tendency to move in circles when questions are avoided and comments withheld. If the same questions are never addressed, they will keep coming up. I really admire you Freezy, you have by far the worst job in that company you could possibly have. If you're not at the top of the payroll then you're underpaid. But you, too, must have figured that out over the years now. To us, the whole fricking "give feedback about the new client" thing has been going nowhere but in circles as well, maybe you can understand that.

  • I think everything was already said in this thread. But I must also make a clarification:


    If you think companies like Bytro are hyper-efficient and counts with a lot of resources, time and employees to apply every bit of feedback the community has said during those four years, then all of you have Bytro in extremely high-expectations and I believe, hence, you must lower those expectations for the sake of everybody here.


    This isn't like a S1914 match where a harbour is built in 3 days, a rail in another 3 and a factory in just 2 days. Feedback implementation take (a lot of) time, unfortunately for the players, of course, besides the verifications of possible bugs caused by those implementations and other issues to be developed.


    So, to think Bytro's development of projects regarding the new UI taking months and even years to be implemented shouldn't be so far-fetched to be understood, or the existence of a "line" of feedbacks waiting to be introduced into the game.


    So, summarizing, these "diplomatic" words still holds to the truth: "Thanks for your patience. We're working to give you a better service".


    Greetings.

    Demonaire
    ES. EN & PT Game Operator

    Bytro Labs | Supremacy 1914


    b78//+

    All the things you need to play this game can be found here, here and here.

    Do you want to experience new ways to enjoy Supremacy 1914? Click here and here.

    Have you problems with the game? Send a ticket.


  • So, summarizing, these "diplomatic" words still holds to the truth: "Thanks for your patience. We're working to give you a better service".


    This point is surely a valid one and believe me, my personal image of Bytro is not that of a highly-efficient company with more resources than work to do.



    But then it all gets murky when you take a look at what they did get done over the past four years. How many changes were made to the game that nobody ever asked for, while items of feedback that have been emphasized time and time again sit idly in the forums, collecting digital dust and not even recieving an acknowledgement. If someone had ever replied to any of that with an honest "Sorry, I don't think we can pull it off" or "Sorry, the development team disagrees on your opinion that this is an important matter" when presented with specific feedback, the point that they're not game development gods with tons of excess resources would have been perfeclty palatable. But like this...

  • This point is surely a valid one and believe me, my personal image of Bytro is not that of a highly-efficient company with more resources than work to do.



    But then it all gets murky when you take a look at what they did get done over the past four years. How many changes were made to the game that nobody ever asked for, while items of feedback that have been emphasized time and time again sit idly in the forums, collecting digital dust and not even recieving an acknowledgement. If someone had ever replied to any of that with an honest "Sorry, I don't think we can pull it off" or "Sorry, the development team disagrees on your opinion that this is an important matter" when presented with specific feedback, the point that they're not game development gods with tons of excess resources would have been perfeclty palatable. But like this...

    I'm pretty sure that, If I review some of the announcements and bug fixes made by Bytro in these last 4 years, either in this forum or in Discord, I'm going to find some feedbacks applied.


    Yes, you may be right when you say Bytro should tell whether a proposal likes or dislikes them, but it's also true nobody likes when someone says your proposal is useless, and saying that can cut the feedback input for Bytro, in the same way it's better to not say an user if his multiple accounts/pushing report gave results or not.


    I'm all for honesty as policy, the problem is the line between honesty and "brutal" honesty is not so clear when talking with customers who generally have that "Customers' always in the right" philosophy. And at those cases, the better policy is "When in doubt, refrain".


    Greetings.

    Demonaire
    ES. EN & PT Game Operator

    Bytro Labs | Supremacy 1914


    b78//+

    All the things you need to play this game can be found here, here and here.

    Do you want to experience new ways to enjoy Supremacy 1914? Click here and here.

    Have you problems with the game? Send a ticket.


  • who generally have that "Customers' always in the right" philosophy.

    I generally agree with your sentiment, of course it's daring to tell people off, but I think it's not much less daring albeit on another level to ignore them when they actively try to help you improve your product.

    And I quoted you there, because that's far from the mentality that I personally have, but in this situation we have here, it's the customers who are the ones using the product, not the company itself. So sure, they're not always in the right, but on questions about how you play the game and how this should be accomodated by its interfacce design, they are more proficient and maybe a little more likely to be right in this particular setting.

  • Lets try and keep this short and easy to understand


    Personaly i hate the legacy mode gone.. i really really do

    i do however understand what freezy means and why its gone.. does not mean i have to like it lol


    ive been around for a bit.. both as player and team member in not just this game.

    have seen a lot of changes, in units, number of units, gameplay etc in that time

    yes im one of the players that wanted to stop when legacy stopped.. sure i am..

    even with the, in my opinion less nice to play version we have been left with i however still like the game so probably will be around for a bit longer (a bit used as undefined time, not to the liking of some players lol yet others will like it) as plyaer and crew.


    The fact they are trying to get to implement several options and game related thigns available in legacy yet not in this version yet gives me hope (and curiousity damm yup im curious sorry (NOT) to see where all of this will lead to


    so my request to all that post/follow this treat:


    Make a list of things better in legacy then this version that really really are importent to you and send them to the gamedevelopers/programmers and see what they can come up with.


    if they cannot get the most important things for you in within some time (yes people programming isnt a quickfix thats done in minuts teh nubmer of grogram lines for a game like htis is truely horrifiing long) and see what happens


    if to many thigns cannot be done and youstill hate the version. im sorry to see you go yet ifthey can (and i trust they will try hard) you find the upgraded new version enjoyable enough to stay im very happy to keep you with us as a player



    being critical about changes is not a wrong thing. being impossible in expectations however only brings pain, regret and sorrow for all in volved..



    Sonja1976

    Smod s1914

    player since 2011

  • Make a list of things better in legacy then this version that really really are importent to you and send them to the gamedevelopers/programmers and see what they can come up with.

    Basically the thing I did with some further thoughts thrown in. I'd love to see additions to my list by other players.


    But the "give them time, it isn't a quick fix" thing... it's been four years. Most of the feedback that's coming in right now is just reiterations.

    I'm also very curious to see what else is going to happen to this game, but I've withdrawn myself from actual playing at the moment. Still chugging along in a mostly empty 500p map as a re-learning game, but that's the most I can handle at this point.