Fire at will! - Patch Notes July 10, 2019

  • I really hope to see tomorrow a removal of this new "feature".

    As stated earlier in the thread, it will be reworked again (to be specific, "the fire at" will setting will return to it's former behaviour, while the "aggressive" setting will stay as it is, so that it is an opt-in behaviour instead of opt-out), but due to our development, QA and release cycles this won't happen over night, so also not in tomorrow's update. Soon...

  • I'm wondering, why didn't this make it first to the Frontline Pioneer games? Isn't the FP supposed to try things first and deliberate whether or not it's balanced and whether or not to include it in the game?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HA8kSdsf_M


    Soldiers!

    don't give yourselves to brutes

    men who despise you

    enslave you

    who regiment your lives

    tell you what to do

    what to think and what to feel!

    Who drill you

    diet you

    treat you like cattle,

    use you as cannon fodder.

    Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men

    machine men with machine minds and machine hearts!


    b78//+

  • while the "aggressive" setting will stay as it is, so that it is an opt-in behaviour instead of opt-out

    Why maintain this new aggressive mode? It starts wars we don't want to start.. I tend to use aggressive mode when I'm going to be offline and want my troops to advance, but I won't be able to do this if they are going to open fire against any neutral units that get in the way causing an unintended war.

  • Why maintain this new aggressive mode? It starts wars we don't want to start.. I tend to use aggressive mode when I'm going to be offline and want my troops to advance, but I won't be able to do this if they are going to open fire against any neutral units that get in the way causing an unintended war.



    true- now you either move blind without shooting or you risk a war because someoen left 1 inf scout on the way

  • It was in frontline pioneer games. No feedback received.

    I'm wondering, why didn't this make it first to the Frontline Pioneer games? Isn't the FP supposed to try things first and deliberate whether or not it's balanced and whether or not to include it in the game?

    It was in frontline pioneer games. No feedback received.

    Why maintain this new aggressive mode? It starts wars we don't want to start.. I tend to use aggressive mode when I'm going to be offline and want my troops to advance, but I won't be able to do this if they are going to open fire against any neutral units that get in the way causing an unintended war.

    There are basically 2 use cases which contradict eachother and we can't serve both with the options we have. You can either use it defensively (new), to give out pre-emptive orders to protect your country from soon-to-be enemies who are sneaking up on you on land or on sea while you are offline, or you can use it offensively (old) to advance with ranged units while being offline (actually you can still do the latter, if you choose paths which dont go into range of neutral countries or if you don't care about starting wars).


    The much bigger issue was that the new behaviour of "fire at will" was forced on people and that there was no way to opt-out without having high command. By reverting this the new functionality is then opt-in and knowing the new behaviour you then have a choice to make use of it or not.

  • It was in frontline pioneer games. No feedback received.

    I haven't seen any announce about it being there, not here, not in CoW so...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HA8kSdsf_M


    Soldiers!

    don't give yourselves to brutes

    men who despise you

    enslave you

    who regiment your lives

    tell you what to do

    what to think and what to feel!

    Who drill you

    diet you

    treat you like cattle,

    use you as cannon fodder.

    Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men

    machine men with machine minds and machine hearts!


    b78//+

  • Well, I had a couple wars start over this new aggressive setting, as in past I have used it with my range units when I knew I would be AFK, seems a new change to again promote more activity...no different than what is required for HnR... I am sure it will be used as an excuse to simply test if another player is active :)

  • There are basically 2 use cases which contradict eachother and we can't serve both with the options we have. You can either use it defensively (new), to give out pre-emptive orders to protect your country from soon-to-be enemies who are sneaking up on you on land or on sea while you are offline, or you can use it offensively (old) to advance with ranged units while being offline (actually you can still do the latter, if you choose paths which dont go into range of neutral countries or if you don't care about starting wars).

    I still think this is a mistake. I think the offensive option is a lot better.


    The only thing we gain is that our troops might start a war while we are offline or if we don't see a neutral unit getting in to one of our units range. That defensive scenario you talk about I think will be less than a 5% of the wars it will start, other 95% being unintended wars.


    And I think everyone cares that their troops might start a war without them wanting it and in most situations it's impossible to be sure that a path won't have any neutral units.. I guess we will just have to stop using agressive mode, that's what I will do, I have basically lost the only fire mode I considered useful.

  • Now I am really confused, if you check the screenshots, my relation with JEJU is a peace-peace one and the cruiser I have near it which is within the range of JEJU's province is set to AGGRESIVE but it has not triggered war and it's been like that for the last 10 hours, more or less because I set it thinking that your update would work, but, surprisingly it doesn't.

    Aggressive fire mode: Limited to range units. Units will bombard enemy and neutral units.

    I beg to differ that they will.


    I prefer to think that you are already making changes in the LIVE version without notifying the users than to think that the update you made for the blockade to be a thing, just pissed off all of us without giving us anything worth it.


    445df8b0ca03c6d16b3c4474023e131d.jpg

    da523550a2c6d6267f391e4be5c65de1.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HA8kSdsf_M


    Soldiers!

    don't give yourselves to brutes

    men who despise you

    enslave you

    who regiment your lives

    tell you what to do

    what to think and what to feel!

    Who drill you

    diet you

    treat you like cattle,

    use you as cannon fodder.

    Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men

    machine men with machine minds and machine hearts!


    b78//+

  • Well, I guess it's also bugged then.. Because my troops did open fire against a neutral unit while on agressive mode and an infantry of mine attacked a neutral unit in the sea too.

    The only reasoning would be that the change only applies to the games made after the update was live, but that isn't stated in the news.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HA8kSdsf_M


    Soldiers!

    don't give yourselves to brutes

    men who despise you

    enslave you

    who regiment your lives

    tell you what to do

    what to think and what to feel!

    Who drill you

    diet you

    treat you like cattle,

    use you as cannon fodder.

    Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men

    machine men with machine minds and machine hearts!


    b78//+

  • Not that either, as my game is on the 34th day.. So makes no sense to me.

    Mine is 33rd day, I was just trying to find a reasonable non-guilty explanation :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HA8kSdsf_M


    Soldiers!

    don't give yourselves to brutes

    men who despise you

    enslave you

    who regiment your lives

    tell you what to do

    what to think and what to feel!

    Who drill you

    diet you

    treat you like cattle,

    use you as cannon fodder.

    Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men

    machine men with machine minds and machine hearts!


    b78//+

  • I try in 4 different games on different days to. But before I did I had all 4 games ROW with AI so I put army in there lands, the other second was outside there city, 1 in the city from the AI and last one on the border. As soon put it on Aggressive it start war.

  • The only reasoning would be that the change only applies to the games made after the update was live, but that isn't stated in the news.

    We didn't change anything yet and the change should apply to all games. So either it is a bug or you gave that nation right of way.

    I still think this is a mistake. I think the offensive option is a lot better.


    The only thing we gain is that our troops might start a war while we are offline or if we don't see a neutral unit getting in to one of our units range. That defensive scenario you talk about I think will be less than a 5% of the wars it will start, other 95% being unintended wars.


    And I think everyone cares that their troops might start a war without them wanting it and in most situations it's impossible to be sure that a path won't have any neutral units.. I guess we will just have to stop using agressive mode, that's what I will do, I have basically lost the only fire mode I considered useful.

    You still can use aggressive fire mode as you did before. Just give the countries you don't want to attack right of way. Even if they don't give RoW to you it is enough that your ranged units won't attack them. Normally most players give RoW to all AIs at the beginning of the game anyway, so shouldn't be a problem. And later in the game most AIs "in between" will be destroyed anyway as well. And regarding larger blocks of human players that you would not want to give RoW: Well you just have to keep your distance to them then or temporarily set to "fire at will" while near their borders. That will probably be the only behavioural change, and that is imo warranted.


    That means after we implemented the fix for fire at will you should be able to make use of the new blockade behaviour while for the most part not losing any old options.

  • We didn't change anything yet and the change should apply to all games. So either it is a bug or you gave that nation right of way.

    Then I guess we have a new bug.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HA8kSdsf_M


    Soldiers!

    don't give yourselves to brutes

    men who despise you

    enslave you

    who regiment your lives

    tell you what to do

    what to think and what to feel!

    Who drill you

    diet you

    treat you like cattle,

    use you as cannon fodder.

    Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men

    machine men with machine minds and machine hearts!


    b78//+

  • You still can use aggressive fire mode as you did before. Just give the countries you don't want to attack right of way. Even if they don't give RoW to you it is enough that your ranged units won't attack them. Normally most players give RoW to all AIs at the beginning of the game anyway, so shouldn't be a problem. And later in the game most AIs "in between" will be destroyed anyway as well. And regarding larger blocks of human players that you would not want to give RoW: Well you just have to keep your distance to them then or temporarily set to "fire at will" while near their borders. That will probably be the only behavioural change, and that is imo warranted.


    That means after we implemented the fix for fire at will you should be able to make use of the new blockade behaviour while for the most part not losing any old options.

    With all the due respect, that can't be the answer in a war simulator game. It's not possible to tell the player "be risky with the RoW if you don't want your troops attacks neutrals". They're neutrals precisely because we haven't trust enough to give RoW to them.


    I just lost a round due to players "clashing" with my troops to provoke wars. It practically became impossible to control naval passes. Hence, you know what we can expect when potential enemies discover we gave them RoW just because we wouldn't want to enter in a war with them.

    Demonaire
    EN Moderator
    Bytro Labs | Supremacy 1914


    b78//+

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