Elite AI for all! - Patch Notes

Ladies and gentlemen, recommend we do not attack (using words) each other over our views. They are our respective views but instead focus on the problem at hand.

Issue - the latest patch removed free trade from all but coalitions. We the few (sidebar - looking at the total population of current players, those that have posted on this thread are a minority in total voices).

We need more people to speak up. If more people complain, Bytro and the developers might listen.

My input is and I am doing this in my games, my alliance, and here is to shed light on this issue and get more people to complain.

If this is not done the the end results will be to either accept the patches and be done with it or to leave the game altogether. Personally I have invested way to much time to just walk away - yet. From the comments I have read since the beginning of this thread on page 1, all of you have invested time and money in Bytro - some more than me.

Post on your games newspaper and talk about this with your alliances. We cannot be the only ones unhappy. If we are, Bytro would gladly like to see us go to be rid of "the problem at hand".

Thank you for your time.

We need Gm users to complain with us- they are target group for company

get them here to listen to what they have to say

Boys just pack it up and leave this god forsaken hellscape known as Bytro games, it's for the good of your own health at this point.

Quote from Golden Frieeza

We need Gm users to complain with us- they are target group for company

get them here to listen to what they have to say

As a GM user myself, I am starting to ask the question of why I'd spend more money on a game where the developers who don't even interact or listen to its community. At least an acknowledgement saying: "Thank you for your feedback! We will work harder and improve the game..." blah blah... something along those lines. Just at least a reassurance that the developers or whoever runs the game are acknowledging the community's comments.

---

Since I was reading about mods, GOs, and CMs above.... I might as well respond it here.

When it comes to the customer support, the moderators/game operators are also lacking. Now, I understand that mods/GOs are volunteer workers, but I rarely see moderators online whenever crap goes on in chat or if someone needs help with technical issues in the game. And if you do make a ticket, game operators response takes like more than 72 hrs. The average response time should be around 12 hrs. Responding quickly means you're meeting customer expectations.

Now on the the EN Support Team roster, I rarely see those people online in the EN global/help/HC chat. And when I do, I just see them go on for 5-10 minutes and leave. Sometimes they disappear for a good amount of time.

Hell, most of the EN Support Team we have right now works on a different department/server. This goes to show that they are lacking in man power. Also, whenever you chat to most of them in chat or in the forums, sometimes they don't act professionally or it's like talking to a robot that don't understand or consider their community's feelings . I understand that they are regular players as well, but they are representing the game. Example is Demonaire's response on previous post, some of those responses were unprofessional.

I'm getting out of topic here, but overall... as a paying customer... I am not happy.

I take back what I said earlier on how this update was not bad at all. It is pretty bad.

Honestly, I will give them another week and see if they'll fix this issue. If not, I'll just leave the game.

as a HQ member I cannot use HQ chat because some grizzly mod banned me - so I do not receive what I paid for

as a very rich person I spend whole games rebuilding my airfields destroyed in terrorist attacks but known perpetrators

as a Golden God of War I am very displeased with experience level of my opponents who only know how to sit longer, how to blob fight, how to do lemming rush-all-in, how to backstab, how to friendpack in big numbers, how to rush with multis, how to lie and betray, sometimes they are reach enough to pay for a quite good war, but there is handful who actually know how to play and win 1 :1 in a normal combat. That is unacceptable drop in quality of service that maps were supposed to deliver

Now when you banned trade they do not stand any chance and I feel it is my duty to preserve some balance in the force . This is why I kindly ask to remove Trade Embargo Update and never come back to that terrible idea.

Quote from nemuritor98

CM: "How's everything going?"
Mods: "Oh, yeah, super cool, users loved last update"

Those same users who allegedly loved last update: "What a bullshit update man"

The funny thing there is: I know some games where that situation not only happens, but it's enforced by the same developers. Even in one game, developers have one good point to keep that behavior. Bytro, until now and AFAIK, doesn't show any of those situations. The correction of the Fire At Will update is an example. And considering you're retired veteran, I find very strange those words from you.

Quote from nemuritor98

The problem here is, Demonaire, that in fact, there's no answer at all, because the fact that only support team members are participating in those threads saying, "Added to the list", "Maybe", "This couldn't be done", it's just a bunch of words with no real weight on them because those support team members have no way to influence Bytro's decisions on what's the next step, specially if after adding it to the list, that is nice to gather all the ideas but doesn't have a way to see how good is an idea, it makes all the ideas equal, even if one of them it's the best(most amount of likes) and the next one is the worst(least amount of likes), you can't tell by just barely looking at the list. Also the fact that from the Support Teams there's no active pursue towards getting those suggestions reviewed by Bytro's game designer's or developers themselves and maybe even to try to add them in the game.

Something most Support Members forget some weeks/months after they joined the team is that, you don't work for Bytro, you work for the community. As a volunteer, anywhere you'd be, you are dedicated to the cause, towards the community. You care for the company, because is the one giving the support to the game and community you love, but don't forget, it's the community who you have to commend to.

If you think answers like "added to the list", "maybe" or "that couldn't be done" aren't enough, it's a OK for me. I disagree, of course, because those answers shows those ideas were read by Bytro members but they have the right to consider an idea is good or bad for the game and when it is the right time to implement it. Plus, in many cases, the likes a idea get isn't a good indicator that idea is really good: those only indicates the idea is very popular, and developers shouldn't be compelled to implement ideas just because popularity if those can damage the game. Finally, more people involving in decision making means more bureaucracy (hence, more inmovility), especially when people doesn't know the technical aspects, which explains why the devs can't give people a more elaborated answer about why an idea isn't feasible. although I certainly agree that if people ask for that elaborated answer, devs could give it.

Something most of the community forgets when they say "You work for the community" to support members and volunteers is that "work for the community" doesn't mean support members and volunteers must become community "yes men". "Work for the Community" is, for example, dedicating some of my time to answer you and other people who's disturbed (in many cases, rightfully disturbed) by updates like this and deliver some of those concerns to the upper echelons, instead of joining brainlessly to all of you and say "Down with the unit trade removal!, Down with the Elite AI as standard!, Down with the trade removal!" If you think my disagreements means "me not working for the community enough", then I think community are the actual problem here, not the support members.

Quote from nemuritor98

I'm sorry but that's not Mods work, that's CM's work, because no one below CM's works at Bytro and therefore no one could talk to the developers/other employees or have internal conversations. If a CM needs 200 volunteers to know if an update has good or bad reviews or to interact with its community, the one he's supposed being paid for, then I'm sorry to say this but that CM isn't doing his/her job right.

The joke here is, you'll see developers, CM's and other employees be active in the forums of the games they are working in, you have plenty of examples, League of Legends, Fortnite, CS:GO, Starcraft, Europa Universalis and many many others, how comes that an INDIE company like Bytro can't do that, are they too busy to interact with its community or is it just the amount of interest in the game itself?

PS: Sometimes even support members don't interact with users. Just the idea of being a volunteer in a game you say you love and that you don't even interact with the community, simply insane.

OK, If you want to wait for the CM. please, be my guest.

As I said before, even in LOL. Fortnite, Starcraft, etc., I'm pretty sure developers doesn't applies brainlessly community ideas and suggestions. And I know pretty well the consequences of developers implementing in a game, without reserves, whatever idea community can have.

If you want to think "Community is always right", go ahead. Just allow me to disagree.

Greetings.

Demonaire do you even know what Customer support mean? because I feel like you don't or reading and writing down from a document. Example here is a list that you will need to if ask you this . Got it? and replay yes. The update is bad for every map and player base will go done . I think enjoy if join a 500 map and 10 ppl and rest AI I won't maybe you will, because that future for game how I see it. Know come we will get new player from we're? stream and negative comments definitive not. Also get one and see how game is he will leave because will lose to the AI. Elite AI are not easy:) first played them they surprised me attack 2 border city with fort 4 and 5:) ,give that a newbie that no clue and will leave good update. Next the coalition trades I personally played solo and join late a coalition to give a free win to others that help me with ressurses .All 4 x speed like that joining 11 coalition wins 10 and 1 lost fight half map every time. Trade Units in 500 I generally play 3-4 ppl and trade our units how on continue the bombarding we call it 24 h bombard of fighters and bombers not more possible. Also like we kill a lot heavy gm and if speak heavy I mean that game got from 40m to 200m gm from the spender:) make free others not possible again. Know tell how it help the game? you think I will spent this game if take all because fell like it definitive not. So good luck with the game make it even worse and worse and have 10 ppl in a 500 map gone be hilarious since then Bytro will lose a lot money or change only 10 map:).

All right a warning to all since i have seen this topic go off topic to what is intended along with rules breaks and getting toxic.

First off a list of rule breaks,

Insulting other forum users or the staff is prohibited. This already results from the rules of etiquette.

The naming or denunciation of users / players, whom (allegedly) exploit bugs or other inconsistencies, is not permitted, as this can lead to unjustified accusations

Denouncing of gms usage and those that buy gms is not permitted.

As things are going, please stay on topic as this is for game-play feedback for this update. Respectful and constructive criticism are always nice however if it goes off topic or it gets bad enough with toxic feedback the devs might not even look to see the feedback that would help improve the game. If this topic stays toxic then it might be closed and if it continues to other patch notes feedback then the devs might not even ask for feedback.

Quote from Edwylm

As things are going, please stay on topic as this is for game-play feedback for this update. Respectful and constructive criticism are always nice however if it goes off topic or it gets bad enough with toxic feedback the devs might not even look to see the feedback that would help improve the game. If this topic stays toxic then it might be closed and if it continues to other patch notes feedback then the devs might not even ask for feedback.

Looks to me they already don't care about feedback. Who in this god forsaken earth asked for any of these features?

Quote from Edwylm

Denouncing of gms usage and those that buy gms is not permitted.

Ah yes, the good ol' anti freedom of speech rule, so that the whales that support Bytro don't feel bad about spending their life savings on these collapsing games.

GM is a pay to win mechanic that ruins the game and serves the sole purpose of giving Bytro income without having to actually work for it, hit me with that ban now if don't mind

Quote from Demonaire

And considering you're retired veteran, I find very strange those words from you.

What is this supposed to mean?

I won't quote the rest because I think I had enough of the same old replies talking about nothing and justifying nothing without even reading the content you are replying to.

As for the update, Bytro usually updates the game on Tuesday, so let's hope they reply tomorrow.

Quote from Arcorian

General:

We added a global popularity indicator to the player profile showing the current standing of the player with the AI. - THX
We added a map border for a better look and feel. - THX
Combat information is now also displayed when hovering over the attack timer. - THX
The attack range of a ranged unit which is part of several selected units now gets highlighted on the map when hovering over the ranged unit in the army bar of a multi selection of units. - THX
We added tooltips to the relation icons displayed in trade dialogs to make it easier to see which icon stands for which diplomatic trade. - THX
When merging units with different fire mode settings, the merged stack will adopt the fire mode of the more powerful units. - THX
Minimum price per unit on the stock market is set to 3.0 money - Revert plz
Maximum price per unit on the stock market is set to 30.0 money - Revert plz
Units cannot be traded anymore - Revert plz
Trading resources via diplomatic trading is limited to coalition and team members - Revert plz
After leaving a coalition players have to wait 3 days before they can join or create a new coalition - THX
After being kicked from a coalition players have to wait 1 day before they can join or create a new coalition - THX

Bug fixes:

We resolved an issue which caused unit specific kill achievements like “panzer ace” not being updating correctly - THX
We fixed an issue that caused a different unit being highlighted than the one hovered in the army bar. - THX
We resolved an issue on mobile devices that prevented the arrival time of enemy and allied units to be displayed when selecting a moving unit on the map. - THX
We resolved an issue that prevented land ranged units set to aggressive fire mode to open fire on other units within their attack range. - THX
We resolved an issue where additional queue slots were displayed incorrectly on mobile and PC. - THX

FREE TRADE !!! FREE MARKET !!! FREE GAMEPLAY !!!

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Quote from Edwylm

All right a warning to all since i have seen this topic go off topic to what is intended along with rules breaks and getting toxic.

First off a list of rule breaks,

Insulting other forum users or the staff is prohibited. This already results from the rules of etiquette.

The naming or denunciation of users / players, whom (allegedly) exploit bugs or other inconsistencies, is not permitted, as this can lead to unjustified accusations

Denouncing of gms usage and those that buy gms is not permitted.

As things are going, please stay on topic as this is for game-play feedback for this update. Respectful and constructive criticism are always nice however if it goes off topic or it gets bad enough with toxic feedback the devs might not even look to see the feedback that would help improve the game. If this topic stays toxic then it might be closed and if it continues to other patch notes feedback then the devs might not even ask for feedback.

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Thank you Ed. Im actually curious what you think about the new update though man.

Quote from Uncanny

Demonaire,

You are operating under the belief that the trading of units is inherently unrealistic. I have supplied a reasonable explanation for the mechanic and posed real-life scenarios in which it has occurred (this explains the 20 grain upkeep as I have demonstrated twice, refer to prior posts.). This kind of explanation has occured for literally years among the roleplaying community, there are many things which are not present in the game that would have occurred in real life including logistic trains, the ability to move outside of predetermined nodes, and the training of mech crews. Implementing these things would detract from the simplicity of the game, which is a bad thing. You speak of Occam's Razor to explain that you are giving over an entire arty crew instead of just the arty pieces. But this is not the simplist solution as dictated by the principle . The simplest solution is to look at what the game is based around (WW1) and what the mechanic is based on (arms deals, lend-leases.) and say they are the same.

In terms of the giving of troops to a better PVPer. You state that it is not teamwork because... It doesn't require coordination, the players are shirking there duties, and it denaturalises fighting? On coordination, both parties (contrater + merc) will still fight as only a small portion can be given away at a time (10%) and it really is not a good strat to dedicate your resource to economy when the easiest and fastest way to build an economy is through expansion (unless you really stuffed up early game). People act as though a small nation can survive against a big nation, but in reality this is not true, if both players are equal skill the small country will lose 90% of the time. On players shirking their duties, again they will fight, it is not feasible to leave out the armies of your friends simply because you are better. On it denaturalising fighting, I had to google denaturalisation lol, again if i have 50 provs and my pvp buddy has 50 provs, we will both have equal armies, even if i give him 10% of my army it is still advantageous for me to fight as well, or we will simply lose to a 100 prov country. I would also like to point out you ignored many of my points. i.e. the following (includes a few extra)

- Only 10% of an army can be traded at any one time, limiting the ability for this to even be feasible.

- Have you ever seen this tactic used in a public match? I haven't in my two years. Makes it a non-issue.

- You are still fighting the same amount of men.
- You are still fighting 2+ countries with the same amount of land.

- Less mobilisation hurts.

- Ultimately some may prefer the economic mechanics over the PVP mechanics (idk why but they may). Before you use this, it is okay to enjoy different mechanics of the same game, everyone has their own play-style lol. We don't want to discourage any one playstyle as that will merely push players form the game. This is more a general statement than anything else.

Also low-key I've never seen you in an RP? If you want to join one hit me up lol.

Uncanny

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Of course you are, but I think I have supplied reasonable explanation about why those posed scenarios doesn't really apply there. And the Occam Razor I quote is precisely about the scenario, not about the game, by which I think the unit trade removal is a correct decision. Your explanation, albeit good, is too complex for me to accept it, when the alternative is simpler.

About PvP: With a 120 units army, 10% means 12 units. That could be 6 arties, 2 rainguns, 2 tanks and 2 light tanks that can be used for shoot n' scoot. And then, the base keeps growing, so more units can be transfered.

Then yes, it's only 10%; yes, the contractor still have to use army for expansion; but he counts now with that 10% army leased to a expert player who might be the dominating factor in the war between two players with equal skill. That thing, of course, wouldn't be an issue, had the expert player (or well, "mercenary") assist his average ally against the common enemy using its own troops and assuming the opprtunity and distance costs from that. Instead, those units transfered are already ready for use in battlefield and means two people fighting against one, who is fairly expecting a one-to-one duel. Not very fair, if you ask me. At least, without the transfer, that mercenary/ally still has to move their troops to assist the player. That's not happening there.

But, now, let me view some of your points and I put them upside down to ask you: if it's only the 10%, if that not happen frequently, if you're fighting with the same amount of troops and if you're fighting with two countries (although I already explained the unfairness here), then why are you complaining about a so irrelevant removal? If units transfering isn't that important, as you want to show me, then there is no difference between remove it or leave it as it is. Again, I'm not of the kind of believing more options are better and a feature practically irrelevant but with the risk to be used in unfair way deserves to be removed.

Quote from Uncanny

I think this thread has perhaps become side-tracked, that being said I think the community has clearly expressed that they are not behind latest update regarding unit trading and the limitations to resource trading specifically. The primary advocate (and only from what i gather? at least here.) for the update is Demonaire, and although he is entitled to an opinion, and to the expression of said opinion. He is, however, still a member Byto's staff base and thus perhaps inclined to side with his employer, no offense or anything demon but you are a member of staff first before you are a member of the community. It is literally your job (also i'm low-key annoyed you didn't respond to my counter-argument, but it be like that sometimes.).

Thus I suspect it is now up to Bytro as to whether they wish to implement any changes or revert any of the changes they have thus far put into place. Some of these include:

Well, Uncanny, big news: me being member of staff first before member of the community is a troublesome vision you and other people have and, hence, see me and other staff members like that is really your problem, not mine.

It's clear for me my argument has less respect or less importance for you, not because that argument is good or bad. No, no, it's because I AM Bytro's staff member. A really nice ad hominem fallacy representation. And as far you hold and defend that vision, you really never fulfill to comprehend the dissent opinions, because you'll always focus in the person telling those counter-arguments before the counter-arguments themselves.

Gosh, you're not even recognize that my opinion about the update as a whole is frankly bad (mainly due to the neutral trade removal). Of course, I get that, since that can't fit in your "distress community vs. evil staff" narrative.

But well, you're right in something: it's now up to Bytro. And I suggest you to look for a couch, prepare a very good cup of colombian coffee, a good book to read and start to wait, until devs can be convinced the update is not that good as they think, and I hope that happens sooner than later.

Greetings.

This is getting old, now ED is here about to lay the hammer down... point is very simple new rules have hurt the game, some of us here are helping, some are into role Playing, some are here to hunt down Gold Abusers, which was fun before all these new rules, no one is denouncing gold use BYTRO made lot of income from this hunting...

How to fix some of these issues would be best topic... new rules will discourage several layers of players that do all the above for BYTRO, perhaps they are not recognized as volunteers, but daily application that is exactly what we all are

who will lead us in this continued evolution?

Quote from Bobokil

Demonaire do you even know what Customer support mean? because I feel like you don't or reading and writing down from a document. Example here is a list that you will need to if ask you this . Got it? and replay yes. The update is bad for every map and player base will go done . I think enjoy if join a 500 map and 10 ppl and rest AI I won't maybe you will, because that future for game how I see it. Know come we will get new player from we're? stream and negative comments definitive not. Also get one and see how game is he will leave because will lose to the AI. Elite AI are not easy:) first played them they surprised me attack 2 border city with fort 4 and 5:) ,give that a newbie that no clue and will leave good update. Next the coalition trades I personally played solo and join late a coalition to give a free win to others that help me with ressurses .All 4 x speed like that joining 11 coalition wins 10 and 1 lost fight half map every time. Trade Units in 500 I generally play 3-4 ppl and trade our units how on continue the bombarding we call it 24 h bombard of fighters and bombers not more possible. Also like we kill a lot heavy gm and if speak heavy I mean that game got from 40m to 200m gm from the spender:) make free others not possible again. Know tell how it help the game? you think I will spent this game if take all because fell like it definitive not. So good luck with the game make it even worse and worse and have 10 ppl in a 500 map gone be hilarious since then Bytro will lose a lot money or change only 10 map:).

Don't worry: I'm fighting right now against 34 Elite AI countries. Very fun, I may add...

Again, if you want to think "Community is always right", be my guest. I'm not interested in convince you otherwise.

Quote from nemuritor98

What is this supposed to mean?

I won't quote the rest because I think I had enough of the same old replies talking about nothing and justifying nothing without even reading the content you are replying to.

As for the update, Bytro usually updates the game on Tuesday, so let's hope they reply tomorrow.

That means you know we report in the Bytro channels what players think about the update. So, don't come here at me with that stuff.

And if my answers are so unimportant for you not mentioning it, then, please, don't make me lose my time writing them.

Greetings.

Quote from Demonaire

That means you know we report in the Bytro channels what players think about the update. So, don't come here at me with that stuff.

Greetings.

Funny because you don't

Quote from lightningturk

Thank you Ed. Im actually curious what you think about the new update though man.

concerning about the big changes.

---adding elite AI

well it does create more of a challenge however the elite AI isn't so much the best, they lack tactics, coronation with allies, to ally with a AI is hard even then not worth it as when you declare war most nations think negative about you. it does help with preventing holding AI capitals to use as morale buffs however due to how elite AI acts you be getting -25 war morale and can't protect all borders which will suck.

---Units cannot be traded anymore

this is something i disliked i wouldn't mind if it was relationship perspective only allowing Share map, RoW or coalition members. even then neutral nations should be able to, to be realistic.

---Trading resources via diplomatic trading is limited to coalition and team members

not good for lone players and how they go about this in non coalition or team games? i haven't experimented with loner gameplay in a while.

---After leaving a coalition players have to wait 3 days before they can join or create a new coalition

---After being kicked from a coalition players have to wait 1 day before they can join or create a new coalition they walk hand in hand, are those leaving/kicked have a protection time so they don't get killed by their former allies? i can see being kicked but leaving is up to the player. however still hurting them if they can't trade.


However things can change, is the change right away maybe idk, the devs have several games to work with so updates to fix issues might be slow. remember they release Supremacy 1 a few months ago so focus on other games will be slower.

I have no problem with adapting, I ask how might we adapt/compete other than dumping tons of GOLD into a map, and if we do dump gold into a map, what assurance do we have that 'what we spend our gold on' will not suddenly be 'nerfed' as the cav, arty and planes have recently been nerfed?

Not to be a whine arse , but while all these changes are being implemented, I am still having issues with new BANNER mode which consistantly shows other countries armies when I am clicking on my own armies, also the Build Que for High Command is blinking in and out, e.g >a coal resource province has no option to build a railroad... IMHO... the Priority should be to fix the day to day errors rather than re-vamping the system, the combination of changes along with daily issues in maps is discouraging...I will carry on and submit bug/reports to do my part to adapt and be a positive member of the community

Thank you for attempting to make sense of what is going on Ed, personally I have never had anything bad to say about the staff which continue to put forth such a sincere effort to communicate with the backlash for what they had nothing to do with implementing... Demonaire also,,, you guys have a tough job, there are several other staff members which have unbelievable patience in these circumstances...it is appreciated...