[S1914] Discontinuing Support for “Legacy Mode”

Quote from November Terra

Every time they discontinue support for an outdated and obsolete UI, everyone comes in droves to complain in the forums denying change and progression. Frankly, if Bytro listened to the complaints we'd be stuck with the game looking and feeling like the early 2000s. Here is a pic of what you younglings are missing out on

I do think there are some annoying issues with the new UI, a personal pet peeve of mine for example is the inability to hide with an option the capital/leader names but you're dreaming if you think the future is in the past.

then why not simple scrap the game / rename it to supremacy 2014 instad of 1914, then let there be modern things

modern game modern look everything. Legacy mode gives the feeling of Supremacy" 1914"

I sure miss java.....

Quote from LightningTurk

I sure miss java.....

I don't, java was clunky and I actually liked the "streamlining" of the design they did when they made that switch. Good example of a design change, albeit fairly minor, that neither I nor many other people rejected. It's not about change. It's about what it changes into.

as we are Discontinuing Support for “Legacy Mode” soon

and Legacy is better than Revamp in every aspect except modern appearance , eating processor , number of exploits or glitches , length of map lags and gm lost due to a misclicks

I would assume we are discontinuing Revamp shortly after Legacy to satisfy needs of customers - is that correct?

Hey guys, I appreciate your enthusiasm for the game and the community.

I chime in here because this all feels so familiar to me personally. I was around when we made the switch from the Java client to HTML (Legacy) several years ago. I remember that we got lots of criticism back then for this step (yes many opposed the idea at first, too) but also lots of good feedback in how to improve the then new HTML version. And we did so over time. That you now all cling to this version is a testiment to the improvements we made.

I am sure we can do such improvements with the revamped graphics mode as well. It is not perfect and it is not done. We know there is room for improvement and the examples you guys posted (special thanks to Raman02334 who took the time to do that) will help us doing that. We can of course not promise yet which adjustments we can make and when, and certainly we will also have to aim for compromises between varying opinions, but we will take a serious look at that. We are also looking into performance improvements and general problems with devices as we want our game to be smoothly playable on as many platforms as possible.

So if you care for Supremacy 1914, please stay and help us improve the new version to your liking!

There is probably also an important factor in "getting used to it". It is in our human nature to be sceptical at first and we usually have a hard time learning new habits. I think many fans of the Java client also never believed they could get used to the HTML (Legacy) version, but they did in the end. I am sure this will be the case with the new revamped version as well. I liked playing the Legacy version back then, too, but I got used to playing the revamp quickly. I can vouch for it being absolutely playable as I myself finished playing many matches with it, and nowadays I do not miss the Legacy version anymore as I got used to the revamp. The vast majority of our players play with the revamp version and they demonstrate each day that this version is totally playable.

Keeping the Legacy mode alive is sadly not an option. We have the numbers - how many players are still playing Legacy and how much revenue this version generates. It is sadly too little in comparison to the revamped version so that maintaining Legacy became unfeasible for us. We wouldn't do this step if this were not true. We rather focus our resources on improving and maintaining the revamp version, as this will benefit a lot more players.

Supremacy 1914 got a new life after we released the revamped version, it enabled us to market the game again in modern times. The result was that the community grew a lot and the game now has its best year ever since it was released ~10 years ago (this is not some PR statement, it is really true!). And this enables us to support the game many more years to come. I hope we can make the new version our shared new home together, like we did in the past. Thanks for sticking with us all these years, and keep the feedback coming!

freezy the problem is a lot like Legacy is easy to see all . I try mobile I try new version and all fail badly . I had funny day to see my fighter driving to enemy's instant of fly( my first guess was because Corona that can't fly there) but I didn't hear something like that. So both mobile and new version a lot to make. Last try mobile is was better with even timer to hit (you didn't had that) I agree trying stuff but at time Legacy is still they best and a lot only playing that, take that away make not playing anymore and delete account what will lose our player base even more. I only hope that don't have 10 active and 490 AI in a 500 map then delete this game myself to.

freezy please do one thing > return tactical armies display option to Revamp UI rather than forcing us to endure this banner display ...

I am happy Bytro is having record breaking year, but i would like to point out that this is directly influenced by Covid-19 and our all being locked down from March till June... This lock down is what brought back a lot of old players which had given up on this game, now they are threatening to leave again...

Perhaps I am very naive since Bytro has a dormant Button as an option for Revamp seems you could activate this dormant button? > pasted-from-clipboard.png

Kind Regards, Hastings TNT

Legacy will be in history soon, as Bytro continues to improve its games, we can have a more modern exepeirience.

But the New mode apart from the legacy mode makes every mobile, Ipad or my little Microsoft laptop over heated, I hate playing in Mobile, thats why. it heats like it is in a sahara desert on top of a burner burning coal in a hot Train.

Also, the new version is more colourful, but Bytro, should't u let the Legacy mode continue?

As the new mode has still so many bugs and things to improve on, legacy mode would be indeal to players, old or young, to play on as you improve the exepeiriuence of the new mode. If you Bytro wanna make money, its fine, just make a price for us and let us continue the play.

Although a new era has came to, I dont believe the legacy mode has to be destroyed at the end as there are still many old players playing the game both on PC and on Mobile. What Bytro should do is to hear and listen what each player has to say and not just announcing and letting the old modes dissappear.

Edlm, why edit it?

I do concede that not everything about the new UI is perfect, but for the most part its heading in the right direction.

For me personally, the new UI does use more of my system resources to run, but it uses more system resources to run and feel faster and smoother. Nothing is wrong with a game that is able to use more of the available CPU/GPU power to run better. (on the 500p old UI, I get a choppy/laggy experience when scrolling the map or zooming in or out despite having a decent PC, which is entirely non existent on the new UI).

I've had little experience with it myself but with large numbers of armies in close proximity it turns into something of a clown fiesta where you can't really tell what army is standing where without basically going through and clicking on armies one by one to get their true location. An option in the settings to replace the unit graphics with a simple pin could help mitigate it and allow basic viewing to remain more comprehensible for longer though obviously, if there are a hundred units in a single province there is only so much simplifying it can do.

The one I personally notice far more regularly is when the UI is zoomed out to its maximum, especially with as many things as can be hidden, hidden. The old UI objectively holds its ground and looks and works far better than the newer UI. It may be an oversight or I may be missing it, but I don't think I could find a way to hide unknown size/composition armies at the edge of my line of sight on the new UI. Obviously, as you get later into the game and more players are taken out, the map starts to declutter itself but it frankly looks terrible and is entirely unusable at higher zooms earlier on in games.

Assuming its an oversight, the ability to hide unknown armies as an additional option, and perhaps a toggle all just for convenience in combination with an option to hide the player/capital names at all zoom levels would go a long way to viewing a nice overview of the map.

I would like to remind everyone to please be respectful and have a constructive discussion regard this matter.
As a reminder to please fallow the forum rules and please refrain yourselves of using swear words.
Thank you.

Replace the 3D models in the new UI with the old models of legacy mode, or at least have a toggle feature that would allow us to switch to the game icons that legacy have without switching to legacy then that would be great way to resolve this.

The revamp UI HAD this feature but it was removed without any explanation to us. Bring that back or at least explain it to us why you removed it and so hesitant to bring it back.

The graphics of the lands and ocean are fine, it's just the huge 3D models that gets annoying esp in bigger maps.

With all said in this thread, I just want to point something:

Don't underestimate aesthetics. People complains the revamped (Ultimate) version is too modern, Instead, I feel Legacy too backward for a WWI game. If not by the tanks, battleships and planes (and the WWI photos), Legacy resembles too much to the typical Napoleonic Wars that is base in the RISK-like games like this. As a matter of fact, some roleplaying games made in S1914 always evoke dates too far preceding to WWI. I know aesthetics isn't the priority in these revamp cases, but clearly the revamp version is more WWI-esque than Legacy.

People are right when says Legacy is better than Ultimate regarding playability, simplicity, gameplay, etc. But my point is, as some people had said before, not everything about Ultimate is bad.

Someone said, " We have numbers like more people play the new UI and less people play Legacy"

If you want to check real numbers and all, allow everyone to play / access LEGACY !

I would like any mode that allows me to open several map-tabs without burning my processor so I can watch them all and change quickly. it is useful if you have 5 wars at the same time.

It would be good if I can see my units without zooming and read a map as now revamp is just like Tokyo by night. more contrast between country colors so I can find borders. Unit silhouettes easier to recognize from bigger perspective as playing 500 map and having 2000 provinces and 5000 armies makes it hard to zoom to every single army.

I would like to play 500 on mobile without destroying my device when people are moving troops all over the map. I heard that two of my opponents lost their devices when we started to move troops to a battle.. not good if game can physically destroy access point

500 map with around 500+ mln armies is standard in a late game. It would be good if lags are smaller than minutes.

Still even my couple of second lags can cause some issues when you are using advanced strategies Can we have a mode that has 0 lags?

If I am playing supre on PC I would like to be able to watch movies , play other games and do whatever I want without loosing all my RAMs and Processor to bytro maps. Can we do something about that?

ps.

bonus question: when we will fix HQ options? It hurts me the most that I am paying for HQ and almost 50% of features does not work. Is it because of the mode I am using or is it a general thing for revamp too?

If there are changes to be made - lets do it

But lets do it right

and lets do it right now

Good point was made. Do you allow new players to play legacy mode? Cos my friend seen me playing and said he will try it out also, but he could not play it, just new one and he did not like new version and gave up.

Im not IT master , but old version was running for many years, then what bugs must be fixed and so on, should be polished over the years?

Quote from Golden Buddha

I would like any mode that allows me to open several map-tabs without burning my processor so I can watch them all and change quickly. it is useful if you have 5 wars at the same time.

One. Thousand. Times. This.

I tried opening two games at once in revamp yesterday and ended up crashing Firefox entirely. I can already barely stream videos or suchlike while having one game open. In revamp, a game of Supremacy is a fullscreen commitment kind of game when it used to be a casual browser game you had open on the side while using your computer for other stuff. It's no wonder so many new players are frustrated by the slow pace. The way the new UI handles suggests it is indeed made so that you'd have the game open and do nothing else but play it - when things take hours to days. This is just way, way, way too heavy for a game like this. I used to be able to have five, six, seven games opened at once to switch between them quickly, have an eye an all of them, and could still stream HD video or even play other games on the same machine. That ability is being taken away from me now, it's just a step back. To me, the product gets worse here when even the mere setting in which I played it isn't possible anymore. I really have a hard time seeing myself give Revamp another chance in January under these circumstances. The entire appeal of a light, casual little game on the side, is gone. I could just as well go buy a better, highly detailed, full 3-D AAA game with a huge budget and play that now. It'll give me about a simultaneous amount of other use of both my machine's resources and my time while it's running.

The bottom line is this: It's not about resistance to change, it's about playability and usability. I'm in one 500 game right now where two members of our team simply cannot select their armies on mobile devices. They DISAPPEAR on them. In addition to that, the amount of processor and RAM required for a 500 game in the new UI overheats devices. Incidentally, with an Intel processor, it will most likely shut down and be fine but with some AMD processors it will actually FRY it. (probably not a good idea to be playing a game that can kill your computer.) I have several different computers that I play Supremacy on and although 500 games will lag a little as they get into late game mode, it still works WELL.

As was stated earlier, keep Legacy alive UNTIL you get bugs worked out with the new version and you will do a lot better. If not, you will lose a lot of the old guard and then you will lose newbies because they can't play it solely on mobile. Choice is yours.

Quote from Furry1

If not, you will lose a lot of the old guard and then you will lose newbies because they can't play it solely on mobile.

They'll also have nobody to spend GM against, right?

Plus, with overheating issues apparently not unheard of, playability on mobile also seems somewhat limited anyway.

I've been redoing my due dilligence with revamp. It's just a major inconvenience all around. If I accept the step backwards that I cannot have several games open anymore, the next problem arises: Loading a late game (a 100p game where my coalition holds roughly 1200 pts - you can about estimate how many units and how much territory is shown on my screen) takes 1-2 minutes. Layer after layer of terrain will grasp its way to life and then it will take a good bit after that's done until any armies are actually shown. That's pretty cumbersome but at least it's a one-time initial load, I don't have a problem with that quite so much as you can pass that time. Where it really starts to sting is when you have to unload all of those painstakingly loaded assets to go back to the game selection and load another game for possibly several minutes, a process that just repeats over and over and over again if I'm home on a Sunday and it's raining outside or whatever. And with Revamp consuming so much CPU while doing all of that, I can barely use my machine for other things in the meantime.

Just compare this to the way I can access the game with Legacy: I click the button, it loads in a new tab. I click the button on the next game, it loads in a new tab. I click the button on another game, it loads in a new tab. After an initial load that takes a late game to even be noticable at all, all of those games are loaded and remain loaded and I can access any of them at any time immediately until I close the browser, fall asleep or the heat death of the universe.

Can you see how much more accessible this is and what a huge step in the other direction the new system is? It squanders the games absolute base appeal by making this glorified board game (which I hope you know I mean as lovingly as one could) consume resources at that level, that defeats the purpose. I really wonder why you guys ever considered it unproblematic enough to release it like this, sorry. The resource hunger of the game seems to affect players on the important mobile market very badly as well with battery drain and heating issues. If there's any one issue you should tackle first of any of them and with the most devotion possible I personally think from a player's and a business perspective it must be this one.

And uhhh...

Quote from freezy

We have the numbers - how many players are still playing Legacy and how much revenue this version generates

Well, duh? No account made since 2018 even has access to Legacy, you don't really need to have those numbers to have a pretty good idea of the general look of them. Especially since the mobile version has obviously created a major boom in new accounts since then. That comparison is seriously flawed in many ways, which doesn't make it worthless, but I hope you are not mistaking this as any form of statement on the quality of either UI? Under the circumstances, clearly you couldn't infer from that that the new UI was better, or even good at all. All it is is a measurable effect of the company's decisions on which UI people get access to in the first place. A more interesting number would perhaps be the amount of people who have access to Legacy but switched to Revamp vs. those that did not?

Legacy mode should be made available to be played by all members of the Supremacy community. I remember reading in a post that said as of a certain date Legacy mode will not be made available for new players joining. I disagree with this decision. Let the players decide what version they like to play that does not damage their computing device or cellular phone.

Also a comment was made by a "powers that be" about the amount of money Legacy mode generates...Supremacy was touted always as a free game. If you want to play without spending a dime, you can. If you want to spend $100USD on a game, you can. If you purposely limit the players playing Legacy, you correspondingly limit the potential amount of income you can possibly receive from players.

Open it up.

Thank you for your time.

Tyr-Ion

If they get rid of legacy mode, I will quit and I know my boyfriend will too. I am a low tech person and if I risk my computer being destroyed to play a game, I will not play. My brain cannot handle the new and "improved" graphics. Quite frankly, the new UI is awful, not playable on my laptop, and my brain cannot comprehend what is going on. Don't think that I am stupid - because I am not - but I know how my brain works and legacy works with my brain.

Bytro always promises to fix bugs yet I have never seen this happen.

What happened to the daily spin from a few years ago? We were promised a replacement that would be better....

What happened to the pop ups that informed you that you got a medal or rank increase? We were promised a replacement that would be better...

Honestly, I cannot trust that getting rid of legacy mode for a "better replacement" is possible because we have yet to receive something better. I dare you to prove me wrong.

If you remove legacy mode, I will demand my money back for the 6 months of High Command I just paid for.